Painter sucks, no one is going to take him

58 minutes ago, devpool said:

Painter sucks, no one is going to take him

I don’t think they’d trade him tbh. His value sucks and they are better off hoping they can fix him at this point. However I also don’t think Adell and Detmer would cost you your top prospect in wood and miller.

Leaving Painter with the Phillies was obviously a mistake. I don't care how good everyone says Cotham is. And Cotham should be the first to realize he can't be in an MLB rotation.

He may still amount to something. But you don't put someone in the majors just to be with the coach when it's plain to see they are completely not equipped for it yet. He shouldn't even be in AAA with that control and fastball. He's going to have an ERA over 5 there too. It should be AA where he last had success.

16 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Leaving Painter with the Phillies was obviously a mistake. I don't care how good everyone says Cotham is. And Cotham should be the first to realize he can't be in an MLB rotation.

He may still amount to something. But you don't put someone in the majors just to be with the coach when it's plain to see they are completely not equipped for it yet. He shouldn't even be in AAA with that control and fastball. He's going to have an ERA over 5 there too. It should be AA where he last had success.

Yep, Double AA is where he should have been sent. Probably dont want to embarass him. My response is this- if Roy Halladay can be sent all the way down to Single A to rebuild himself, then it shouldn't be above Painter to do the same.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

Leaving Painter with the Phillies was obviously a mistake. I don't care how good everyone says Cotham is. And Cotham should be the first to realize he can't be in an MLB rotation.

He may still amount to something. But you don't put someone in the majors just to be with the coach when it's plain to see they are completely not equipped for it yet. He shouldn't even be in AAA with that control and fastball. He's going to have an ERA over 5 there too. It should be AA where he last had success.

They aren’t asking Caleb Cotham to make the decision to keep Him at the mlb level. That’s a Dombrowski and FO decision. He can say he’s not ready and they’ll take it under consideration cause it’s Cotham. But organizationally it’s Dave and FO making it. his job was to work with painter and try to fix those issues he’s had for 1.5 years now.

I’m guessing the Phillies didn’t want him in the minors (besides just giving a rookie time to adjust and see if they saw improvement as he got more time with cotham) because they knew that in the minor his issues are likely not getting fixed. If anyone was going to fix the issues it’s cotham. For example they had Jean Cabrera in triple A to start the year. He was close to being a call up guy if he pitched well in triple A. Has talented could’ve been an 4-5 starter and he got rocked in triple A. He’s now on double A also getting rocked. That’s because the coaching at those two levels really hasn’t been very good for a couple years now. It’s why Sanchez made a bigger jump with Gotham than he did in triple A where he was up and down and inconsistent with his control. Almost every young prospect pitcher besides wood in double or triple A has been lousy. The only ones doing anything are guys who are older like 26-28. Take a look it’s the career minor league guys having success pitching wise besides wood in double and triple A

so this comes down to the Phillies making a decision that they rather their best pitching coach try to fix the issues and hope over a period of time he’d start showing improvement from ST to mid-June. As in triple A and double A they haven’t shown any with anyone not named wood. Add on it probably didn’t help that the coaching in triple A didn’t do anything to help painter last year either.

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

They aren’t asking Caleb Cotham to make the decision to keep Him at the mlb level. That’s a Dombrowski and FO decision. He can say he’s not ready and they’ll take it under consideration cause it’s Cotham. But organizationally it’s Dave and FO making it. his job was to work with painter and try to fix those issues he’s had for 1.5 years now.

I’m guessing the Phillies didn’t want him in the minors (besides just giving a rookie time to adjust and see if they saw improvement as he got more time with cotham) because they knew that in the minor his issues are likely not getting fixed. If anyone was going to fix the issues it’s cotham. For example they had Jean Cabrera in triple A to start the year. He was close to being a call up guy if he pitched well in triple A. Has talented could’ve been an 4-5 starter and he got rocked in triple A. He’s now on double A also getting rocked. That’s because the coaching at those two levels really hasn’t been very good for a couple years now. It’s why Sanchez made a bigger jump with Gotham than he did in triple A where he was up and down and inconsistent with his control. Almost every young prospect pitcher besides wood in double or triple A has been lousy. The only ones doing anything are guys who are older like 26-28. Take a look it’s the career minor league guys having success pitching wise besides wood in double and triple A

so this comes down to the Phillies making a decision that they rather their best pitching coach try to fix the issues and hope over a period of time he’d start showing improvement from ST to mid-June. As in triple A and double A they haven’t shown any with anyone not named wood. Add on it probably didn’t help that the coaching in triple A didn’t do anything to help painter last year either.

You are over thinking and rationalizing it. It’s an evaluation. He’s unfit for Major League Baseball and they were embarrassed into acknowledging something they should have identified months ago.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

You are over thinking and rationalizing it. It’s an evaluation. He’s unfit for Major League Baseball and they were embarrassed into acknowledging something they should have identified months ago.

no offense they sent Brandon marsh down to the minors after a month into last year and that was egg on their face with that trade at that point. especially cause they said he was going to be an everyday CF and fix his issues hitting LHP. It had been years and neither of those things came true at that point. He was worse one of the worst OF in all of baseball at that time

They needed more than a month of evaluation. He had an ok first 4 starts. He had a 4.42 era. fine as your 5th starter. At that point people were complaining about sending him down and he wasn’t remotely as bad as now. Then he had two bad starts sandwiched between an ok start. Then he came out of that with 3 good starts from May 13-24 went 5 innings 1 run, 6 innings 2 and 6.1 innings 2. So this was the time they were gonna send him down? When he looked like he was starting to turn it around and bouncing back? But they were embarrassed that a rookie started off so-so then struggled then bounced back to look good for a stretch of 3 starts? Or they saw and thought maybe Cotham was getting through to the kid at that point and he was the best bet for getting him where they think he could be. While also looking down in the minors wasn’t pretty for some of their younger pitching prospects at double/triple A besides wood

Yeah don’t see embarrassment was the reason they waited til after this game. they wanted more time to evaluate painter with Cotham after he straightened him out for 3 starts after struggling. wanted to give him another 3-4 starts to see if Cotham was able to keep showing improvement with him. Clearly he was regressing each start since then. I’m guessing they also probably weighed in that they wanted to see what he does against the Marlins as they stink and they’re not the Dodgers and the Brewers (even the white Sox who are in first place). Who have the two best records in the National League. Those two are 2 and 3 in the league in runs scored and both too 5 in avg. they are going to make a lot of pitchers not look great. Heck Dodgers got 4 off wheeler and brewers 4 off Sanchez

What I am trying to tell you is they were always gonna give him more time to see if he kept improving or bounce back after he hit a struggled. They rather him be working with their best coach in their system especially after he had that short stretch where he showed improvement then sending him down hoping triple A and double A coaches fix the issue. which in reality those coaches at those two levels with young pitching prospects this year or with Painter in 2025 haven’t been very good. Cabrera was supposed to be that guy if painter failed to bring him. However he was awful in triple A. Had no answers to fixing him there so sent him to double A. He’s just as bad there. I don’t think that was lost on the organization when making the decision with painter working with Cotham or minor league coaches that have struggled with their young prospects

Age 23 seasons. Both sent down to the minors.

might not even be Rangel who gets the call up tomorrow as want a RP and then call up a SP when it gets closer to that start. Granted Rangel went 6 IP tonight gave up 4ER, 3 BBs and 4Ks. Over his last 6 starts he’s avg 4.2 IP, 5.71 era and a 32:13 k to walk ratio

17 hours ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Time to send a painter down

Yes, no reason to have him continue up in the majors any longer

Not that Taijuan is an option now, but maybe Doug shouldn’t have been so hasty to cut him given the complete lack of SP depth in the minors. He still would have value as a long reliever in mop up duty and spot starter.

4 minutes ago, Blazehound said:

Not that Taijuan is an option now, but maybe Doug shouldn’t have been so hasty to cut him given the complete lack of SP depth in the minors. He still would have value as a long reliever in mop up duty and spot starter.

Absolutely. Walker sucks, but he’s been viable for stretches. As I said before, they had zero insight into how unprepared Painter was and how barren they are in AAA.

And they have zero prospects of value to really get in the game at the trade deadline.

Walker wasn’t the answer. He had a 9.13 ERA to start the year. his DFA ties back to the end of 2025. In September he had a 6.14 ERA. They made him a starter again in the second half and eventually wheels fell off again. His last 6 starts of 2025 he had an 6.83 era. his last 11 starts with the Phillies he had a 7.75 ERA.

I’d also guess because this wasn’t a Nick Castellanos situation where they just didn’t like the guy and want him out of the organization. Probably gave him the option of either DFA and stay in the system in triple A in case wheeler, Nola or painter failed or he given his outright release to be free to sign somewhere else and potentially latch on to being a starter elsewhere.

Their answer was signing someone for back end in the offseason knowing they had little depth in the minors. Knowing Nola struggling last year and might be cooked, Walker being volatile and bad at the end of last year, painter struggling in the minors in 2025 and wheeler coming off his injury. Point out they could’ve just brought back Walker buehler relatively cheap. He’s got 14 starts this year and a 4.14 ERA. Which was mentioned multiple times they should bring him back to see if more time with cotham would work.

Right now, this is about as bad as their top 5 prospects list has looked in over 10 years. Granted, with the bias and stain of hindsight, the list looks pretty awful every year going back to 2010 or so. But it usually featured 1-2 guys with active hype. Right now they have absolutely nothing.

40 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Right now, this is about as bad as their top 5 prospects list has looked in over 10 years. Granted, with the bias and stain of hindsight, the list looks pretty awful every year going back to 2010 or so. But it usually featured 1-2 guys with active hype. Right now they have absolutely nothing.

Klentak really wasted a golden opportunity cause when they sucked at the start of his tenure they had 3 straight years of top 10 picks. They took Moniak (solid for the Rockies, but was bad for us), Haseley and Bohm. amaro the year before klentak also blew a top 10 pick in Randolph. So had 4 years in the top 10 and the best they have to show for it is Bohm.

I’d argue their hype prospect is going to be Wood. By years end he’s likely going to jump from top 75 prospect to 25-50

2 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Klentak really wasted a golden opportunity cause when they sucked at the start of his tenure they had 3 straight years of top 10 picks. They took Moniak (solid for the Rockies, but was bad for us), Haseley and Bohm. amaro the year before klentak also blew a top 10 pick in Randolph. So had 4 years in the top 10 and the best they have to show for it is Bohm.

I’d argue their hype prospect is going to be Wood. By years end he’s likely going to jump from top 75 prospect to 25-50

Wood is a really nice pitching prospect. He's really not at the prospect level that any of their recently hyped pitchers have been...Painter, Abel, Spencer Howard, Sixto. Of course, that looks like a pretty bad list now and Wood won't need to do much to be the best of that list. But Wood still has to prove he's not going to slot as a high leverage bullpen arm.

It's sad that the best prospect in the organization might be a bullpen arm.

10 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Wood is a really nice pitching prospect. He's really not at the prospect level that any of their recently hyped pitchers have been...Painter, Abel, Spencer Howard, Sixto. Of course, that looks like a pretty bad list now and Wood won't need to do much to be the best of that list. But Wood still has to prove he's not going to slot as a high leverage bullpen arm.

It's sad that the best prospect in the organization might be a bullpen arm.

he’s 22 and by the end of the year he’s likely gonna be as high or ranked higher as prospect than Mick Abel was at 23. Abel’s peak was 2023 he was a prospect 40-50 range. wood very easily could wind up being in that range after 2026. wood was drafted higher than Spencer Howard. Wood was a legit first rounder and Howard was a sandwich pick. Wood came into that draft with more hype than Howard did. Surprised the Phillies took him and it was a surprised he was available at 26 (money played a part of it). he’s ranked 68 on baseball prospectus to start his second year. Howard was 36 by his 3rd year then dropped to 67 by 4th year. Baseball America year 3 was 27. Neither baseball America nor prospectus had him ranked in their top 100 his 1st 2 years. It’s not out of the question wood gets close to that with how he’s looked and prospect pools are different. If he’s close to 27-40 by years end that’s basically Howard.

Also he’s being developed to be a starter. He's been starting in single and double A. He’s had 13 appearances in the minor leagues and all of them are starts. they want him to be a starter.

Come on Nola 2 great pitches then throw a freaking meatball

Just now, Bwestbrook36 said:

Come on Nola 2 great pitches then throw a freaking meatball

It’s always with two outs

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

It’s always with two outs

It's infuriating