You can't give a guy all the credit and no blame...or all the blame and no credit. 

You believe the defensive philosophy is Siri’s when things go bad...but then " Fangio is in place" if things go well??

Obviously if you are correct with Siri’s philosophy...then Fangio would be a Siri guy.   If Fangio is a Lurie/ Howie guy...which he might be, then he already has a coach that agrees.  Why change? 

Only way to change is bad results..not success,especially when the coach is doing everything you want. 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Your value is in a top O mind....do you think Lurie thinks of Doug and Siri as top O minds...  or guys that run the entire ship better.   

What do you think Lurie thinks of Chip?  Was he super with people or considered a top O mind?

Was Siri chosen over Moore because he had a better O mind?

You think Lurie kept Reid around so long because he was a top O mind...or he felt Reid was organized and good running the organization?  

AR is an unbelievable O mind and coach. So let’s not even involve him so much…even though he does still fit the bill. He’s almost not fair to compare. Pedey top O mind…basically getting AR back the best we now could. Check…yes. Chip..gimmick O scheme..check yes. Certainly wasn’t because he’s such a nice humble great with people person. Siri OC and O mind. Now when hired he was coming here to install his O and playcall. But going to admit probably wasn’t just because he was superior O mind than Moore. He had Gannon. So the O mind with the better package won out.

  So now we have head to head Siri and Moore. Siri doesn’t have the package. He’s got the Passing Coordinator. Moore has Coach Doug the QB coach. All other coaches pretty much are in place. Whats the best decision moving forward in this scenario? Forget who has ever done what before. Best decision for us in this specific scenario.

34 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

AR is an unbelievable O mind and coach. So let’s not even involve him so much…even though he does still fit the bill. He’s almost not fair to compare. Pedey top O mind…basically getting AR back the best we now could. Check…yes. Chip..gimmick O scheme..check yes. Certainly wasn’t because he’s such a nice humble great with people person. Siri OC and O mind. Now when hired he was coming here to install his O and playcall. But going to admit probably wasn’t just because he was superior O mind than Moore. He had Gannon. So the O mind with the better package won out.

  So now we have head to head Siri and Moore. Siri doesn’t have the package. He’s got the Passing Coordinator. Moore has Coach Doug the QB coach. All other coaches pretty much are in place. Whats the best decision moving forward in this scenario? Forget who has ever done what before. Best decision for us in this specific scenario.

The best moving forward would be to keep a head coach with winning experience.   If everything is in place... and al they did was bring in an OC... different from Hurts baby sitter...then they should think they can easily get a new OC.

The sell on the new OC is easy.  

1. Roster 

2. Head coach that would allow you to do your thing

3.  If Moore gets a head coach job..  then that's 3 OCs who got promoted to head coach in 7 seasons. 

4... everything else is in place

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Shannahan.... O mind... or his players?  

O mind. Garrapolo, Trey Lance, Purdy….none the baddest Qb in the land. You gotta have players and talent. They have assembled plenty of talent. But a bunch has been on the D side of the ball while still being successful. Had several very quality DCs come through and done well. Because you can find a quality D coach that you don’t have to offer the HC job and control of the team over to. But the best O minds all get their own team.

2 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Your value is in a top O mind....do you think Lurie thinks of Doug and Siri as top O minds...  or guys that run the entire ship better.   

What do you think Lurie thinks of Chip?  Was he super with people or considered a top O mind?

Was Siri chosen over Moore because he had a better O mind?

You think Lurie kept Reid around so long because he was a top O mind...or he felt Reid was organized and good running the organization?  

What super talented D mind has Lurie hired or interviewed to take over?

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

I think you yourself have this obsession with this " offensive mind"  I don't think you see how Lurie views things.  He went that route once... Lurie doesn't seem like a guy who would look to go back to what burned him, especially after having success the other way.

I actually would perhaps give Lurie the credit with his obsession if maybe pointing this out to me. But it’s not isolated to me…or even him. This is pretty much just become business of the NFL. Look around. The really talented top O minds get more than just a HC job. McVay and Shannahan get control and power of the team when they were hired. GMs work for them.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Winning coaches are the hardest to obtain. 

I agree the league has more head coaches with an offensive background at the moment...absolutely. 

But I don't go as far as you do with words like " covet"

I think the media likes to sensationalize things....also fits your personality perfectly.    But I don't think any owner would fire a winning head coach to keep the OC.

I grew up and still love some dominating D. I still think you can win with dominating D. But I still can have my eyes open enough to realize you can get hold of a Schwartz and Fangio for the  D. The O mind won’t stick around…unless he’s the HC. That’s how I arrived at this thinking. Keeping Steichen was the better decision. If Moore kicks butt I’d turn the team over to him….or he’ll be poached. Personally I believe the plan revolves around next offseason when two or possibly three big coveted OCs become available. Slowik and Johnson are on every teams wish list. Each had five or more teams wanting them this past offseason. Which goes towards directly proving my point. So gotta start working those irons in the fire like now to land those big fish for next season. Both will be first time HCs and be exactly what Lurie and Rosie would want. But these two guys very much have the potential where they will want more control and power very soon coming up. So gotta be willing to relinquish some power and control to a quality coach. But it’s a battle for their services. One we need to win. 

2 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Easier to find an O mind to be an OC..than a guy who can run the whole show successfully as a head coach.  

Just look at who wins at the end.  

 

 McVay, AR, Shannahan ….Pedey

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

 McVay, AR, Shannahan ….Pedey

Frankly Pedey had Reich and DeFillipo. A whole great cast of O mindset coaching. But you no doubt need talent. But most talented team can’t overcome crap coaching. Great coaches can adapt and make their personnel with for them…to whatever degrees of success. I’m liking me some DeMeco Ryan’s as a HC hire. Wish we got him. But can’t deny the job Slowik has done as the OC. What QB are you thinking is so great that has a bad O mind coaching him?

2 hours ago, joemas6 said:

O mind can't win without talent... then we see plenty of O minds ultimately fail at the end because they can't balance the whole thing as a head coach.  That takes not only talent...but proper people skills. 

 

No doubt…from any type of HC. The top O minded coaches you can’t keep around without that HC moniker however. The Buddy Ryan family types you can get to run your D. Much more available than any quality O coach. That’s just the way the league is today. Nothing to do with my preferences or obsessions. This is the way of the NFL. If our team does great this year who’s getting poached…Fangio or Moore? Exactly.

A great example to make your point would be that dope under Bellicheat. Great O minded coach. Was a disaster as a HC. So I totally agree it takes more than just an O mind to be a great HC. But if you don’t hire the great O mind as your HC…you’re going to be rollercoasting searching for that hardest to find OC all the time. As soon as you have success…poached. Hire a bad OC you don’t have to lose him. So you only even have a chance to win in small windows when you make an excellent OC hire…which is the hardest one to find.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

The best moving forward would be to keep a head coach with winning experience.   If everything is in place... and al they did was bring in an OC... different from Hurts baby sitter...then they should think they can easily get a new OC.

The sell on the new OC is easy.  

1. Roster 

2. Head coach that would allow you to do your thing

3.  If Moore gets a head coach job..  then that's 3 OCs who got promoted to head coach in 7 seasons. 

4... everything else is in place

But your selling to what ranking of coaching choice? Top three candidates are being sold that and more to receive their own teams as HC. So you are looking at taking a big gamble on another QB coach like you talked about with Hurts babysitter. But Siri can’t assist and carry some green OC. It’s not like AR taking on an OC. Siri doesn’t have the answers. 

There are some crucial clock management game sitting to deal with as a CEO HC. But mostly a bunch of CEO coaching job duties…that’s what Rosie does. He clearly steps way past just GM. Has a whole analytics teams to map out the game situation choices even.

Even going the CEO coaching route…is very emotional and least mature the qualities you are looking for in the CEO coach? Is that how you see John Harbaugh or Mike Tomlin? Or are they much more like Jalen Hurts type personalities?

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

O mind. Garrapolo, Trey Lance, Purdy….none the baddest Qb in the land. You gotta have players and talent. They have assembled plenty of talent. But a bunch has been on the D side of the ball while still being successful. Had several very quality DCs come through and done well. Because you can find a quality D coach that you don’t have to offer the HC job and control of the team over to. But the best O minds all get their own team.

Agree...not the best QBs...some darn good skill guys though and had a phenomenal run blocking OL for a few years.

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

What super talented D mind has Lurie hired or interviewed to take over?

Take over what?

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I actually would perhaps give Lurie the credit with his obsession if maybe pointing this out to me. But it’s not isolated to me…or even him. This is pretty much just become business of the NFL. Look around. The really talented top O minds get more than just a HC job. McVay and Shannahan get control and power of the team when they were hired. GMs work for them.

I agree.. around the  NFL..   for the Eagles....that's not how it works.  They were voted the #1 front office... ( that's the combo of Lurie/ Howie and everyone else.   You think they want to give up power?

I understand completely....THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT.   You won't get me to agree that Lurie will give up the power.   

I absolutely agree if this fails this year...Siri is out.    I even agree the next coach will have an offensive background. 

But we disagree on 2 things.  

1.  If they succeed Siri stays

2.  The next coach won't be hired because he is a genius play caller... he will be hired for his overall plan as a head coach, how he plans to work within the structure they have in place. People skills will be a factor a well. 

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

A great example to make your point would be that dope under Bellicheat. Great O minded coach. Was a disaster as a HC. So I totally agree it takes more than just an O mind to be a great HC. But if you don’t hire the great O mind as your HC…you’re going to be rollercoasting searching for that hardest to find OC all the time. As soon as you have success…poached. Hire a bad OC you don’t have to lose him. So you only even have a chance to win in small windows when you make an excellent OC hire…which is the hardest one to find.

The head coach is the hardest one to find, not the OC.  You don't need the genius OC.   

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

If Moore kicks butt I’d turn the team over to him….o

You would... if the Eagles kick butt... Lurie won't switch.  And why would he?  

1 He likes stability ... 2. He'll find another OC... you don't think they will be or are already prepared?    This is the perfect job for an OC,,, talent, your run the show, team is good, and history of OC's promoted to HC.    Perfect opportunity.  

But I don't know necessarily that Moore would get another offer?    Easy perception could be our players were the factor.  He has had some opportunities, what's changed now?  Do we expect anything super creative on offense?  I don't, just a few things different and some maturity of the QB can make a huge difference, in the offense... not to mention Barkley.  I just don't think Moore would definitely be that " coveted"  

Paul Brown ... 1946-55

Chuck Knox ... 1973-77

John Robinson.. 1983 -86

Bill Cowher ... 1987-92

John Harbaugh ... 2008-12

The only 5 coaches to make it to the playoffs 4 times in a row to start their careers ...in NFL HISTORY!

Possible 6th coach to do it this year.   

 

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

 McVay, AR, Shannahan ….Pedey

didnt Tampa win recently?

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Frankly Pedey had Reich and DeFillipo. A whole great cast of O mindset coaching. But you no doubt need talent. But most talented team can’t overcome crap coaching. Great coaches can adapt and make their personnel with for them…to whatever degrees of success. I’m liking me some DeMeco Ryan’s as a HC hire. Wish we got him. But can’t deny the job Slowik has done as the OC. What QB are you thinking is so great that has a bad O mind coaching him?

Who were the OC's in Dallas for Aikman?   Who was the great O mind for Brady all these years and in Tampa?  Any of them make a good head coach?  How about for Manning?  And the other Manning in NY?  Not a fan of McCarthy... how about the O minds of Seattle?  Who was the OC for Denver when they won? 

 

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

No doubt…from any type of HC. The top O minded coaches you can’t keep around without that HC moniker however. The Buddy Ryan family types you can get to run your D. Much more available than any quality O coach. That’s just the way the league is today. Nothing to do with my preferences or obsessions. This is the way of the NFL. If our team does great this year who’s getting poached…Fangio or Moore? Exactly.

Not Fangio.... not Siri.... so Moore would be the possible one that is poached.

You are a franchise.... Moore has had his history in the league.    It was ok right.    If the Eagles have success... but it's nothing that looks super creative, more so the talent on the field.

you think teams will be jumping to get Moore?    You see him as a " top O mind"  just because he has success with the perceived top talented offense in the league... and your boy at QB... or just in a good situation?    

And if he gets poached... do you seriously think he will be that hard to replace?    You already aren't that impressed with him.

FWIW-Ogbah signed with Miami