3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Now this is jumping ahead. But with success what happens to the successful coordinator that is crucial with the O mind? Reich, Steichen…hopefully Moore? In Pedey’s case I believe he was the more valuable coach. Let Reich go. In Steichens case…I believe he was the more valuable. Now Moore was the runner up choice by Rosie(FO) for our HC job he lost out to Siri for. So with success might develop a fork in the road. A choice to be made. Siri got the nod over Moore I believe because of the coordinators he was bringing with him. Basically because of the whole package. Now in this case you have Moore and Coach Doug as the package. Whom is the side to choose to keep? Siri? Or Moore? This is under the optimistic outcome of this season. 
  Now you can say this isn’t the way traditionally anybody has done things. Which you are correct with. But I’m pointing out the value is in top O mind. That’s the hardest coach to obtain…without giving him the HC mantle. Look across the league. The guys who aren’t O minded HC will get their OCs poached. Like Steichen. Lions OC Johnson is getting his own team after this season. Texans OC Slowik is getting his own team. So to secure that O mind you gotta make him HC. What they believed they did originally by hiring Siri. But should have realized became Steichen clearly in front of all our eyes. Seemed obvious the way it played out here …but then was a strong first season in Indy as HC for him. Made a mistake there. Stuck thinking inside the box. So now in a best case scenario we’ll face the same situation. So don’t make the same mistake.

When in the history of football... was there a team with success... then fired the coach to keep the coordinator. 

And " No Mas, you miss new ways of doing things etc. " doesn't work here as an answer?   You believe Lurie would keep Moore and fire Siri.... after choosing Siri over Moore in the first place?

Why wouldn't he just allow Siri to pick another OC?   Especially after he just would have had success with two OCs?  And Moore no track record as a head coach...a different job than OC.

14 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I don't think a good look... after firing the only SB winning coach ( for what everyone knows was disagreement on future coaching hires).... then firing the winning coach in franchise history... after he does exactly what worked and what you want him to do...  

That's a bad look.   I believe to fire the next coach...after Doug, they need more to justify.  Otherwise who would want the job?

I think their egos need Siri to keep the job and keep winning more than Doug does in Jacksonville. 

That pettiness...or arrogance...I absolutely believe exists . 

Aren’t we already somewhat there with who wants the job? Think it’s fairly well understood league wide our situation. Also see how it looks like Fangio kind of busted through that wall a bit. He isn’t some green lap dog for the FO. So is what’s crucial is to only hire the young hungry coach that as good as he can get is any opportunity he’s given in the league? Or are we willing to give more power and control to the next coming of McVay? 
  There are many positives that come with the Eagles HC job. I don’t want to ignore those. They are crucial. But Rosie(our FO) is limiting ourselves with the coaching hires. Doesn’t our team deserve the best coaches we can get? Isn’t it worth the price we need to pay to hire a coach so good Rosie(our FO) will be risking losing some control and power over? Shouldn’t that actually pretty much be the goal?

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

When in the history of football... was there a team with success... then fired the coach to keep the coordinator. 

And " No Mas, you miss new ways of doing things etc. " doesn't work here as an answer?   You believe Lurie would keep Moore and fire Siri.... after choosing Siri over Moore in the first place?

Why wouldn't he just allow Siri to pick another OC?   Especially after he just would have had success with two OCs?  And Moore no track record as a head coach...a different job than OC.

Already explained this. First off it’s a very direct competition for the HC job in the first place. That Siri won out over Moore because he had Gannon in tow.

Your value is in a top O mind....do you think Lurie thinks of Doug and Siri as top O minds...  or guys that run the entire ship better.   

What do you think Lurie thinks of Chip?  Was he super with people or considered a top O mind?

Was Siri chosen over Moore because he had a better O mind?

You think Lurie kept Reid around so long because he was a top O mind...or he felt Reid was organized and good running the organization?  

My thinking here isn’t any new way it’s being done and sure isn’t the past. But in the past was full of all kinds of D minded coaches being elevated to HC. That just isn’t the way of the league nearly as much. The O minded coaches are the most coveted hardest coaches to obtain? Do you agree?

9 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

We have Fangio already locked in place. You give me a Shannahan on the O side then it’s just up to personnel decisions and health.

Shannahan.... O mind... or his players?  

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Aren’t we already somewhat there with who wants the job? Think it’s fairly well understood league wide our situation. Also see how it looks like Fangio kind of busted through that wall a bit. He isn’t some green lap dog for the FO. So is what’s crucial is to only hire the young hungry coach that as good as he can get is any opportunity he’s given in the league? Or are we willing to give more power and control to the next coming of McVay? 
  There are many positives that come with the Eagles HC job. I don’t want to ignore those. They are crucial. But Rosie(our FO) is limiting ourselves with the coaching hires. Doesn’t our team deserve the best coaches we can get? Isn’t it worth the price we need to pay to hire a coach so good Rosie(our FO) will be risking losing some control and power over? Shouldn’t that actually pretty much be the goal?

I think you yourself have this obsession with this " offensive mind"  I don't think you see how Lurie views things.  He went that route once... Lurie doesn't seem like a guy who would look to go back to what burned him, especially after having success the other way.

4 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

My thinking here isn’t any new way it’s being done and sure isn’t the past. But in the past was full of all kinds of D minded coaches being elevated to HC. That just isn’t the way of the league nearly as much. The O minded coaches are the most coveted hardest coaches to obtain? Do you agree?

Winning coaches are the hardest to obtain. 

I agree the league has more head coaches with an offensive background at the moment...absolutely. 

But I don't go as far as you do with words like " covet"

I think the media likes to sensationalize things....also fits your personality perfectly.    But I don't think any owner would fire a winning head coach to keep the OC.

Easier to find an O mind to be an OC..than a guy who can run the whole show successfully as a head coach.  

Just look at who wins at the end.  

 

O mind can't win without talent... then we see plenty of O minds ultimately fail at the end because they can't balance the whole thing as a head coach.  That takes not only talent...but proper people skills. 

 

27 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Already explained this. First off it’s a very direct competition for the HC job in the first place. That Siri won out over Moore because he had Gannon in tow.

Right... Siri had a bigger plan with the overall coaching job that Moore did.  It wasn't due to being an O mind.

Now we have Fangio in place... an old dude that wanted to come back to the area.  How long do you think he coaches here?   

Wouldn't it make sense to keep the guy who you agree with his ideas of assistants he would hire.... vs a guy like Moore who you already interviewed? 

I don't get why you don't understand the concept...if Siri wins again..with  2 different coordinators... why wouldn't logic tell you he could do it again ...vs an unproven head coach?

You can't give a guy all the credit and no blame...or all the blame and no credit. 

You believe the defensive philosophy is Siri’s when things go bad...but then " Fangio is in place" if things go well??

Obviously if you are correct with Siri’s philosophy...then Fangio would be a Siri guy.   If Fangio is a Lurie/ Howie guy...which he might be, then he already has a coach that agrees.  Why change? 

Only way to change is bad results..not success,especially when the coach is doing everything you want. 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Your value is in a top O mind....do you think Lurie thinks of Doug and Siri as top O minds...  or guys that run the entire ship better.   

What do you think Lurie thinks of Chip?  Was he super with people or considered a top O mind?

Was Siri chosen over Moore because he had a better O mind?

You think Lurie kept Reid around so long because he was a top O mind...or he felt Reid was organized and good running the organization?  

AR is an unbelievable O mind and coach. So let’s not even involve him so much…even though he does still fit the bill. He’s almost not fair to compare. Pedey top O mind…basically getting AR back the best we now could. Check…yes. Chip..gimmick O scheme..check yes. Certainly wasn’t because he’s such a nice humble great with people person. Siri OC and O mind. Now when hired he was coming here to install his O and playcall. But going to admit probably wasn’t just because he was superior O mind than Moore. He had Gannon. So the O mind with the better package won out.

  So now we have head to head Siri and Moore. Siri doesn’t have the package. He’s got the Passing Coordinator. Moore has Coach Doug the QB coach. All other coaches pretty much are in place. Whats the best decision moving forward in this scenario? Forget who has ever done what before. Best decision for us in this specific scenario.

34 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

AR is an unbelievable O mind and coach. So let’s not even involve him so much…even though he does still fit the bill. He’s almost not fair to compare. Pedey top O mind…basically getting AR back the best we now could. Check…yes. Chip..gimmick O scheme..check yes. Certainly wasn’t because he’s such a nice humble great with people person. Siri OC and O mind. Now when hired he was coming here to install his O and playcall. But going to admit probably wasn’t just because he was superior O mind than Moore. He had Gannon. So the O mind with the better package won out.

  So now we have head to head Siri and Moore. Siri doesn’t have the package. He’s got the Passing Coordinator. Moore has Coach Doug the QB coach. All other coaches pretty much are in place. Whats the best decision moving forward in this scenario? Forget who has ever done what before. Best decision for us in this specific scenario.

The best moving forward would be to keep a head coach with winning experience.   If everything is in place... and al they did was bring in an OC... different from Hurts baby sitter...then they should think they can easily get a new OC.

The sell on the new OC is easy.  

1. Roster 

2. Head coach that would allow you to do your thing

3.  If Moore gets a head coach job..  then that's 3 OCs who got promoted to head coach in 7 seasons. 

4... everything else is in place

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Shannahan.... O mind... or his players?  

O mind. Garrapolo, Trey Lance, Purdy….none the baddest Qb in the land. You gotta have players and talent. They have assembled plenty of talent. But a bunch has been on the D side of the ball while still being successful. Had several very quality DCs come through and done well. Because you can find a quality D coach that you don’t have to offer the HC job and control of the team over to. But the best O minds all get their own team.

2 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Your value is in a top O mind....do you think Lurie thinks of Doug and Siri as top O minds...  or guys that run the entire ship better.   

What do you think Lurie thinks of Chip?  Was he super with people or considered a top O mind?

Was Siri chosen over Moore because he had a better O mind?

You think Lurie kept Reid around so long because he was a top O mind...or he felt Reid was organized and good running the organization?  

What super talented D mind has Lurie hired or interviewed to take over?

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

I think you yourself have this obsession with this " offensive mind"  I don't think you see how Lurie views things.  He went that route once... Lurie doesn't seem like a guy who would look to go back to what burned him, especially after having success the other way.

I actually would perhaps give Lurie the credit with his obsession if maybe pointing this out to me. But it’s not isolated to me…or even him. This is pretty much just become business of the NFL. Look around. The really talented top O minds get more than just a HC job. McVay and Shannahan get control and power of the team when they were hired. GMs work for them.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Winning coaches are the hardest to obtain. 

I agree the league has more head coaches with an offensive background at the moment...absolutely. 

But I don't go as far as you do with words like " covet"

I think the media likes to sensationalize things....also fits your personality perfectly.    But I don't think any owner would fire a winning head coach to keep the OC.

I grew up and still love some dominating D. I still think you can win with dominating D. But I still can have my eyes open enough to realize you can get hold of a Schwartz and Fangio for the  D. The O mind won’t stick around…unless he’s the HC. That’s how I arrived at this thinking. Keeping Steichen was the better decision. If Moore kicks butt I’d turn the team over to him….or he’ll be poached. Personally I believe the plan revolves around next offseason when two or possibly three big coveted OCs become available. Slowik and Johnson are on every teams wish list. Each had five or more teams wanting them this past offseason. Which goes towards directly proving my point. So gotta start working those irons in the fire like now to land those big fish for next season. Both will be first time HCs and be exactly what Lurie and Rosie would want. But these two guys very much have the potential where they will want more control and power very soon coming up. So gotta be willing to relinquish some power and control to a quality coach. But it’s a battle for their services. One we need to win. 

2 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Easier to find an O mind to be an OC..than a guy who can run the whole show successfully as a head coach.  

Just look at who wins at the end.  

 

 McVay, AR, Shannahan ….Pedey

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

 McVay, AR, Shannahan ….Pedey

Frankly Pedey had Reich and DeFillipo. A whole great cast of O mindset coaching. But you no doubt need talent. But most talented team can’t overcome crap coaching. Great coaches can adapt and make their personnel with for them…to whatever degrees of success. I’m liking me some DeMeco Ryan’s as a HC hire. Wish we got him. But can’t deny the job Slowik has done as the OC. What QB are you thinking is so great that has a bad O mind coaching him?

2 hours ago, joemas6 said:

O mind can't win without talent... then we see plenty of O minds ultimately fail at the end because they can't balance the whole thing as a head coach.  That takes not only talent...but proper people skills. 

 

No doubt…from any type of HC. The top O minded coaches you can’t keep around without that HC moniker however. The Buddy Ryan family types you can get to run your D. Much more available than any quality O coach. That’s just the way the league is today. Nothing to do with my preferences or obsessions. This is the way of the NFL. If our team does great this year who’s getting poached…Fangio or Moore? Exactly.

A great example to make your point would be that dope under Bellicheat. Great O minded coach. Was a disaster as a HC. So I totally agree it takes more than just an O mind to be a great HC. But if you don’t hire the great O mind as your HC…you’re going to be rollercoasting searching for that hardest to find OC all the time. As soon as you have success…poached. Hire a bad OC you don’t have to lose him. So you only even have a chance to win in small windows when you make an excellent OC hire…which is the hardest one to find.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

The best moving forward would be to keep a head coach with winning experience.   If everything is in place... and al they did was bring in an OC... different from Hurts baby sitter...then they should think they can easily get a new OC.

The sell on the new OC is easy.  

1. Roster 

2. Head coach that would allow you to do your thing

3.  If Moore gets a head coach job..  then that's 3 OCs who got promoted to head coach in 7 seasons. 

4... everything else is in place

But your selling to what ranking of coaching choice? Top three candidates are being sold that and more to receive their own teams as HC. So you are looking at taking a big gamble on another QB coach like you talked about with Hurts babysitter. But Siri can’t assist and carry some green OC. It’s not like AR taking on an OC. Siri doesn’t have the answers. 

There are some crucial clock management game sitting to deal with as a CEO HC. But mostly a bunch of CEO coaching job duties…that’s what Rosie does. He clearly steps way past just GM. Has a whole analytics teams to map out the game situation choices even.

Even going the CEO coaching route…is very emotional and least mature the qualities you are looking for in the CEO coach? Is that how you see John Harbaugh or Mike Tomlin? Or are they much more like Jalen Hurts type personalities?