Wow they just released images of the Steelers war room after Philly moved ahead of them. Why would they let this out

My take on the pick is that Lemon was the best 1st round WR aside from Tate. I did not like any of the OT prospects as first round picks. I thought Proctor had the best chance outside of Mauigoa and Ioane to be a starter at OG. He reminded me of Becton with shorter arms. Blake Miller seemed like the most ready out of the OT prospects and he anchors like Andre Dillard. None of them seem ready to play. They all have technique issues of physical flaws. I think McNeill-Warren and Thineman better fit team needs. I also liked Malachi Lawrence. I can see why moving up for Lemon makes sense from a cost benefit perspective. The question to me is whether a later pick for a more typical X or a speed threat would have been a better fit.

@eagle45 pointed out that the cost to get Lemon likely exceeds the return on AJ Brown. I agree with that unless Howie has some more pictures of Vrabel he's threatening to release. I do think that is only part of the equation. You have to look at the salary cap space the Eagles need to extend Hunt, Carter, Mitchell and Cooper. It allows them to pursue some free agent pieces next offseason as well. The return, which is hopefully a 1st+ for AJ, is part of the equation. The Eagles got rid of an aging player who is on the decline for a much younger player at a lower cost.

He isn't an AJ replacement. He isn't the same kind of deep threat as AJ. His least successful route was a go route:

Hurts does not throw deep middle of the field well. I found this article after the 2023 season which discusses his struggles: https://www.insidethebirds.com/10613-2-analytics-report-philadelphia-eagles-offense-jalen-hurts/ . The stats show "[w]hen Hurts threw deep-middle, though, his completion percentage dropped at a rate of 10.26% and his yards per attempt dropped at a rate of 23.90%. He threw two more interceptions and two fewer touchdowns in 2023." Lemon is not a pick that plays to Hurts's strengths. This isn't a build around Hurts pick. It's a pick where it makes it easier to move on from him if he does not excel this upcoming season.

 

5 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Wow they just released images of the Steelers war room after Philly moved ahead of them. Why would they let this out

Not funny to make light of that situation - I heard Crosby was clinically dead for 2 minutes on the ice and they had to bring him back with the paddles

11 hours ago, Lman said:

If the Steelers were on the clock then how did we jump and take him??

They picked 21st. We traded up to 20.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

What hurts me is next years draft is loaded with Olympic burners.

If Wicks doesn't produce he's easily replaceable and the contract isn't detrimental. He needs to not drop the ball and continue to progress since he's only 24. If he disappoints or is just very average, you can look in next years draft for another top talent. Probably more likely round 2 and after.

12 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Ok, so what picks do we have on day3?

Just a 5th round comp and the 6th from the Sydney Brown trade

178 and 198

39 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I still don't love the Lemon pick. I don't hate it. I'm "fine" with it. I think he's a good player. I prefer upside in the draft. Not sure he has elite upside and I always prefer gambling on that. I would have been happier if they were able to move up for Freeling. Impossible to know who Howie had ranked higher on his board between the two.

But Freeling was also a projection and is raw, so I can't pretend I know he's going to be some star OT either. There wasn't really anyone where the Eagles were picking that I would have been over the moon with given the draft class. What I hate is the uncertainty of the team's future at OT. It's not a great spot to be in. And if Lane retires next year they're really gonna have their backs against the wall finding an OT in next year's draft. And if it's not a great OT class, they could be in a lot of trouble. Need the anxiety of not having that heir apparent gone. But maybe Lane doesn't retire after this season. Everyone assumes he will, but maybe he's like Trent Williams and keeps going. Who knows.

I just hope they don't force OT today. I think there's actually better IOL today when it comes to OL. Day two looks very strong on defense with safeties and edge guys available. And some TEs I really like, but 54 feels a tad early for most of them. I don't know if he'll be there but I'd love Bisontis today.

Max Klare, Oscar Delp, TJ Parker, Cashius Howell, Chris Bell, Chase Bisontis, Emmanuel McNeil-Warren, AJ Haulcy are my favs today.

What is elite upside specifically at the slot receiver position though? Think about the truly elite players at that position: JSN, Nacua, ARSB.

Doesn’t Lemon fit that mold perfectly?

I think we need to separate slot receivers from boundary receivers. They’re different positions that require different skill sets to be elite. A boundary receiver generally needs more pure speed. You want them to be taller, with a high vertical. You want these things because they are playing in isolation.

A slot receiver is a different prototype. They need to be quick with great acceleration. They need great route running and great hands. And they need these things because they’re playing in traffic. They will have a nickel back in front of them, a LB is likely not too far away to their inside. A safety is over top of them. They need to create quick separation and catch passes in stride.

Objectively, Lemon is a prototypical slot receiver who compares favorably to guys who catch 100 passes and put up 1700 yards. Will Lemon do that? Probably not because that would be playing his position at the most elite level and those teams base their entire offense around those players. But I would say that is his upside as a slot receiver in the same way that if you drafted some 6’5” 230 pound guy who ran a 4.3 forty you would say Megatron or DK Metcalf was his upside.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Just a 5th round comp and the 6th from the Sydney Brown trade

178 and 198

Blech

Howie will probably trade back, his own 3rd down into the 4th & whatever else.

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I have no opinion. I see why some would like it. I see why some others wouldn't. I'll say this, it doesn't excite me. Generally speaking, elite WRs in the NFL have something special about them. Lemon doesn't seem to possess anything elite, so that caps his upside. He looks like he might have a very high floor though. He's a single... maybe double type pick to me. Not a home run by any stretch and not a pick that should cause anyone to take a victory lap.

Lemon has elite hands and route running. Only 4 drops in his entire college career and runs every route to every area of the field at a very high level.

I would also say he has an elite play mentality. Now, that’s an intangible, but there is something to be said for a guy who is going to give you 100% effort every second he is on the field, will do all the dirty work you ask of him in blocking, will run down an interception 90 yards from across the field, and is absolutely fearless catching the ball in traffic.

Yes, he is not Megatron. But neither are ANY of the best slot receivers. Nacua, JSN, ARSB — none of them are Megatron either. Lemon’s game is very similar to them, and they’re absolutely elite NFL receivers.

23 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

My take on the pick is that Lemon was the best 1st round WR aside from Tate. I did not like any of the OT prospects as first round picks. I thought Proctor had the best chance outside of Mauigoa and Ioane to be a starter at OG. He reminded me of Becton with shorter arms. Blake Miller seemed like the most ready out of the OT prospects and he anchors like Andre Dillard. None of them seem ready to play. They all have technique issues of physical flaws. I think McNeill-Warren and Thineman better fit team needs. I also liked Malachi Lawrence. I can see why moving up for Lemon makes sense from a cost benefit perspective. The question to me is whether a later pick for a more typical X or a speed threat would have been a better fit.

@eagle45 pointed out that the cost to get Lemon likely exceeds the return on AJ Brown. I agree with that unless Howie has some more pictures of Vrabel he's threatening to release. I do think that is only part of the equation. You have to look at the salary cap space the Eagles need to extend Hunt, Carter, Mitchell and Cooper. It allows them to pursue some free agent pieces next offseason as well. The return, which is hopefully a 1st+ for AJ, is part of the equation. The Eagles got rid of an aging player who is on the decline for a much younger player at a lower cost.

He isn't an AJ replacement. He isn't the same kind of deep threat as AJ. His least successful route was a go route:

Hurts does not throw deep middle of the field well. I found this article after the 2023 season which discusses his struggles: https://www.insidethebirds.com/10613-2-analytics-report-philadelphia-eagles-offense-jalen-hurts/ . The stats show "[w]hen Hurts threw deep-middle, though, his completion percentage dropped at a rate of 10.26% and his yards per attempt dropped at a rate of 23.90%. He threw two more interceptions and two fewer touchdowns in 2023." Lemon is not a pick that plays to Hurts's strengths. This isn't a build around Hurts pick. It's a pick where it makes it easier to move on from him if he does not excel this upcoming season.

 

Is the middle field stats still accurate? We don't throw in the middle much but it always seemed like that area was actually pretty good for Hurts

16 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Just a 5th round comp and the 6th from the Sydney Brown trade

178 and 198

Howie is trading down today unless he trades up.

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

They need to have Gritty on stage for one of the picks 🤣

That would be some ELITE level trolling on Saturday... The shame is that the Flyers game doesn't start until 8PM. It would be even more elite for him to come out with a broom to announce a pick right after the Flyers seal the deal with the win. The times just don't line up for that. And I blame the Sixers. If they weren't hosting Boston today, the Flyers game would be tonight.

3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

He could have worded it better so as to not look like the GM and owner said F your thoughts on the 13th pick

22 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

My take on the pick is that Lemon was the best 1st round WR aside from Tate. I did not like any of the OT prospects as first round picks. I thought Proctor had the best chance outside of Mauigoa and Ioane to be a starter at OG. He reminded me of Becton with shorter arms. Blake Miller seemed like the most ready out of the OT prospects and he anchors like Andre Dillard. None of them seem ready to play. They all have technique issues of physical flaws. I think McNeill-Warren and Thineman better fit team needs. I also liked Malachi Lawrence. I can see why moving up for Lemon makes sense from a cost benefit perspective. The question to me is whether a later pick for a more typical X or a speed threat would have been a better fit.

@eagle45 pointed out that the cost to get Lemon likely exceeds the return on AJ Brown. I agree with that unless Howie has some more pictures of Vrabel he's threatening to release. I do think that is only part of the equation. You have to look at the salary cap space the Eagles need to extend Hunt, Carter, Mitchell and Cooper. It allows them to pursue some free agent pieces next offseason as well. The return, which is hopefully a 1st+ for AJ, is part of the equation. The Eagles got rid of an aging player who is on the decline for a much younger player at a lower cost.

He isn't an AJ replacement. He isn't the same kind of deep threat as AJ. His least successful route was a go route:

Hurts does not throw deep middle of the field well. I found this article after the 2023 season which discusses his struggles: https://www.insidethebirds.com/10613-2-analytics-report-philadelphia-eagles-offense-jalen-hurts/ . The stats show "[w]hen Hurts threw deep-middle, though, his completion percentage dropped at a rate of 10.26% and his yards per attempt dropped at a rate of 23.90%. He threw two more interceptions and two fewer touchdowns in 2023." Lemon is not a pick that plays to Hurts's strengths. This isn't a build around Hurts pick. It's a pick where it makes it easier to move on from him if he does not excel this upcoming season.

 

To cost benefit thing and AJ Brown, I firmly believe part of the reason AJ Brown wants out is because he sees the writing on the wall that after 2026 he was gone and that the Eagles were not gonna give him a contract extension. I think they look at him as 30 years old, has had some knee issues and maybe on the decline as well as they have to pay all these defensive players. so they needed to make some tough decisions and trading aj was either happening post June 1 or next offseason

Aj is not a dumb guy. I think he believes if he can get traded somewhere and a team gives up the draft capital is also going to give him an extension. They’re not gonna give up the capital and then have the issue a year later when he’s angry about his contract, only having 4 million guarantee left on it. (Unless it is the cowboys as that’s how they generally do business). I think this is a good way for him to get himself his last big extension before he risks a potential big injury or even more decline and that extension was obviously not coming from the Eagles.

11 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Howie will probably trade back, his own 3rd down into the 4th & whatever else.

It will be interesting to see what Howie has planned. They went from having a lot of picks at one point to now just 5 left. Might have less if they pull off a trade for Greenard or someone else.

I've been trying to think if there is anyone they could trade to acquire more picks besides the obvious McKee. Maybe a Ringo or Bennett?

3 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Is the middle field stats still accurate? We don't throw in the middle much but it always seemed like that area was actually pretty good for Hurts

I have no idea. I don't think any part of the passing offense was good even if he improved in that area.

1 hour ago, Nice Work Pal said:

The Pythons?…Dr J played on their imaginary team

Yes, I know they have no team... which is why the Sixers have a chance.

36 minutes ago, wussbasket said:

There's 15 years worth of data. Sure it doesn't represent every draft class individually, but over time it gives you a pretty accurate picture of how each round tends to pan out and what positions they are good at drafting. Howie has been the constant. Looking at the Eagles selections in the 4th round over the past 15 years can give you a good indication as to how they will do in the 2026 4th round. Only 1 time in the past 15 years have they selected OL in the 4th round (Jack Driscoll). I'm not saying they won't draft OL in the 4th, but historically they don't do it.

It's not perfect, but based on the numbers I'm not too worried they are missing out on players like Avonte Maddox or Josh Sweat, when its more likely to be a Zech McPhearson or Kelee Ringo type of player.

I don't buy it at all. Howie hasn't been the constant either. Other people have run drafts in various years. Chip Kelly, Joe Douglas...

And therew scheme fits then coaching/system changes that affect the success of a pick that may have been good at the time but turns out wrong a year later Etc.

Far too many variables. I dont believe time adds power to such a flawed metric. It just. Compiles more misleading data.

The only thing I’m certain of tonight is the Eagles will take an OT at some point who they see as an eventual replacement for Lane at RT. The plan would be to hope he’s ready to at least compete for the starting job going into 2027 assuming that Lane retires.

If they don’t go OT tonight then next offseason that’ll be a must to add in free agency and/or round 1 of the draft. It very well could be anyway.

I just really don’t like the current state of the O-Line. They were ass last year.

Malachi Lawrence, and 2 4ths

Or

Makai Lemon

12 minutes ago, TEW said:

Lemon has elite hands and route running. Only 4 drops in his entire college career and runs every route to every area of the field at a very high level.

I would also say he has an elite play mentality. Now, that’s an intangible, but there is something to be said for a guy who is going to give you 100% effort every second he is on the field, will do all the dirty work you ask of him in blocking, will run down an interception 90 yards from across the field, and is absolutely fearless catching the ball in traffic.

Yes, he is not Megatron. But neither are ANY of the best slot receivers. Nacua, JSN, ARSB — none of them are Megatron either. Lemon’s game is very similar to them, and they’re absolutely elite NFL receivers.

#1 easiest characteristic to predict future NHL success -- doesn't drop the ball.

1 hour ago, HazletonEagle said:

dumb argument. This class is stacked in the middle rounds. And, at positions we need too.

Pretty much every year I hear that the middle rounds are stacked. Every year they are pretty 'meh', which is why those guy don't go sooner. These guys are generally going to be depth pieces, not needle movers. If you can get a true needle mover for 2 potential middling depth pieces, you do it. The delta from Round 3 to Round 5 isn't so great that the potential upside isn't worth it.

I'm not sure this guy is that though.

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

Malachi Lawrence, and 2 4ths

Or

Makai Lemon

You don't know if the Eagles would have taken Lawrence. Standing pat I would have taken Thieneman but Howie wouldn't have done that. To your point. I would have rather stood pat and kept the two fouths.