5 minutes ago, RLC said:

The combination of a scary injury history, shaky mechanics and lost athleticism is enough for me to move on. If he can't win in the pocket, it's over.

You won't find out if he can win in the pocket until he gets a pocket to throw from

Just now, Asg 15 said:

You won't find out if he can win in the pocket until he gets a pocket to throw from

Judging any QB who would play behind this oline, throwing to these wr's with a lack of run support, is just ludicrous.   Wentz/Hurts, it wont matter. You cannot effectively judge a QB in that manner.

 

 

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

If they don't then Lurie should be locked up for criminal insanity, and inciting a riot.

If they do get rid of Howie, it would not surprise me to see Joe Banner pop up in the organization.  Lurie wants someone near him he can trust.  For better or worse, he trusts Howie and has a long relationship with him. I could see him moving Howie out of the personnel side again and giving Weidl the title of GM.   I am not optimistic that he moves on from Howie at this point.  I will say that I would rather Doug be back than Howie.   

9 minutes ago, austinfan said:

They're not giving up on Wentz, it's hard to find a starting QB with his upside, teams go decades without finding one. If you're rebuilding, you have no reason not to be patient with Wentz.

Hurts shows nothing that says more than marginal starter, but shows enough that he could be a top ten backup by next season and that has lots of value to a team (how many QBs play 16 games, year in and year out?).

I'll let the new front office and coaching staff figure that out.  One knock on Wentz would be that he'll be 29 years old in 2021... with some injury history, flawed mechanics, etc.   Who knows how many years he really has left, or will want to have left?   Is he Tom Brady and will want to hang on forever, or is he more Andrew Luck, and content to take his millions and move on in a few more years, even if he does get straightened out?  Luck retired just before his 30th birthday.  Wentz plays out next season, cashes the $24M he's due next year... uses that to pay back the leftover signing bonus proration and lives very happily in North Dakota on the $45M he's already earned.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

I understand the thought that the D is the biggest need but with the way the NFL is currently run the offense has all the advantages there it seems smarter to draft for a high powered offense,.  The D seems to be a necessary evil in the eyes of the league brass.

Yup... Track meet offense is the new path in the NFL.  Being a tough defensive team isn't in vogue, nor does it seem like it works very well.   It all seems to come down to the last possession and maybe a few splash defensive plays.  You don't need a defense that can stop the opponent, just one that can create some turnovers and buckle down in the red zone... if you have an offense that can score with anybody.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yup... Track meet offense is the new path in the NFL.  Being a tough defensive team isn't in vogue, nor does it seem like it works very well.   It all seems to come down to the last possession and maybe a few splash defensive plays.  You don't need a defense that can stop the opponent, just one that can create some turnovers and buckle down in the red zone... if you have an offense that can score with anybody.

KC fits right into that mold

7 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

They should move Howie, and the entire coaching staff. Key word "SHOULD"

However, the way Lurie has done things in the past, tells me he wont clean house, Most likely Doug is gone, and some coaching , he will retain some like Duce, Stoutland. And Give Howie 2 more years to improve. 

Howie is already in Round 2.  And while he brought us a Super Bowl... everything that's happened since then has had the stench of arrogance and futility.

 

7 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

If they do get rid of Howie, it would not surprise me to see Joe Banner pop up in the organization.  Lurie wants someone near him he can trust.  For better or worse, he trusts Howie and has a long relationship with him. I could see him moving Howie out of the personnel side again and giving Weidl the title of GM.   I am not optimistic that he moves on from Howie at this point.  I will say that I would rather Doug be back than Howie.   

Ew.  No... we need someone from OUTSIDE that groupthink.

And I think Doug is washed...  He seems disinterested and detached.  

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yup... Track meet offense is the new path in the NFL.  Being a tough defensive team isn't in vogue, nor does it seem like it works very well.   It all seems to come down to the last possession and maybe a few splash defensive plays.  You don't need a defense that can stop the opponent, just one that can create some turnovers and buckle down in the red zone... if you have an offense that can score with anybody.

We have neither. 

2 minutes ago, Casey @ Bat said:

We have neither. 

Very very true.  Which is why I continue to beat the drum for a stem to stern house cleaning.  

Come out of this upcoming draft with Ja'Marr Chase and Najee Harris in Rounds 1 and 2, and you will be on your way... Reagor becomes a multi-tool and the primary option on flanker screens, jet sweeps, end arounds, etc.  Also frees him up to remain at PR.  Harris becomes that feature back that you can ride for 20+ carries a game, and Sanders goes back to that change of pace home run hitter without having to give him too many touches and wearing him down... clearly he can't handle a big load physically.  He's always dealing with some soft tissue issue when 'over used'.  (Of course, currently, he's dramatically underused.)  And this team can be a base 11 personnel with this group.   Not perfect, and just a step in the right direction, but it would be a step.  

14 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'll let the new front office and coaching staff figure that out.  One knock on Wentz would be that he'll be 29 years old in 2021... with some injury history, flawed mechanics, etc.   Who knows how many years he really has left, or will want to have left?   Is he Tom Brady and will want to hang on forever, or is he more Andrew Luck, and content to take his millions and move on in a few more years, even if he does get straightened out?  Luck retired just before his 30th birthday.  Wentz plays out next season, cashes the $24M he's due next year... uses that to pay back the leftover signing bonus proration and lives very happily in North Dakota on the $45M he's already earned.

 

 

One good thing is QBs can play into their 30s but I feel this team has failed at putting a good support cast to help Wentz out since drafting him

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Ew.  No... we need someone from OUTSIDE that groupthink.

And I think Doug is washed...  He seems disinterested and detached.  

I disagree about Doug being washed or disinterested.  I do think he is struggling.  I think the bigger problem is Howie.  Frankly, the team needs someone just to come in and be in charge of what is going on regardless of whether it is an outside voice or not. 

Just now, Mike030270 said:

One good thing is QBs can play into their 30s but I feel this team has failed at putting a good support cast to help Wentz out since drafting him

He's had good support for exactly one season.  

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

I disagree about Doug being washed or disinterested.  I do think he is struggling.  I think the bigger problem is Howie.  Frankly, the team needs someone just to come in and be in charge of what is going on regardless of whether it is an outside voice or not. 

Explain the lack of Hail Mary at the end of the half.   He is clearly struggling, no doubt.    And you'll get no argument for me regarding Howie being the bigger issue.   I just want a clean slate to start over with.   Clean... completely clean and no links to the past. 

18 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

After knowing what I know with both Howie and Doug, I have a feeling Doug was the driving factor and pushed REAL HARD for a lot of these picks. 

Doug finds new toy(scheme) and seems like he begs and begs to get his way. 

That hurts pick = Doug

That Reagor pick = Doug(Djax light, and Doug begged to get Djax back) 

Meh - You just hate Doug.  It does sound like you're right on Reagor but I think getting DJax back was on Howie.  

If Hurts starts the rest of the season, then you have to move Wentz. (If I'm Wentz, I demand a trade.)

If you move Wentz, then you should move Ertz, Slay, Sanders, Brooks, Cox, Hargrave, McCleod, and Lane.

Dark times ahead...

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Explain the lack of Hail Mary at the end of the half.   He is clearly struggling, no doubt.    And you'll get no argument for me regarding Howie being the bigger issue.   I just want a clean slate to start over with.   Clean... completely clean and no links to the past. 

I wouldn't be opposed to a clean slate.  I am afraid that Lurie will get rid of Doug before Howie.  I think that's a mistake.  

30 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

I understand the thought that the D is the biggest need but with the way the NFL is currently run the offense has all the advantages there it seems smarter to draft for a high powered offense,.  The D seems to be a necessary evil in the eyes of the league brass.

It honestly isn’t a bad philosophy because when you look around the league theres a lot of bad defenses on good teams. The Tennessee Titans are 8-4 and their defense is atrocious. They are scoring enough points that in a lot of games it doesn’t matter they are awful. Seahawks much of the season the same. The chiefs defense hasn’t exactly been stellar all year. Offensively they can make up for it.   It’s much harder in this league to win with a good to great defense and suspect offense than the other way around.

Just now, NCiggles said:

I wouldn't be opposed to a clean slate.  I am afraid that Lurie will get rid of Doug before Howie.  I think that's a mistake.  

Agreed.

2 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

If Hurts starts the rest of the season, then you have to move Wentz. (If I'm Wentz, I demand a trade.)

If you move Wentz, then you should move Ertz, Slay, Sanders, Brooks, Cox, Hargrave, McCleod, and Lane.

Dark times ahead...

Yup. Agreed on all points. 

We should be able to get a decent QB prospect since we will likely be picking in the top 5.  Time to think about Potential Franchise QB's.

Wentz is gone, you let Hurts compete with new QB. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Might need to include QB on that list...  I don't know that Wentz is fixable (definitely not by this coaching staff) and I never thought Hurts was a future franchise QB... unless maybe they decide to run the Baltimore Ravens' offense... which I would prefer they didn't.

I was going to include it as a maybe but decided to leave it alone. 

3 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Yup. Agreed on all points. 

We should be able to get a decent QB prospect since we will likely be picking in the top 5.  Time to think about Potential Franchise QB's.

Wentz is gone, you let Hurts compete with new QB. 

 

 

Eh I don’t take a quarterback just to take a quarterback in the top five because I’m picking in the top five. I have to actually love the quarterback in order to make that selection. I know the Washington football team said they loved Dwayne Haskins but I think they love Dwayne Haskins because he played quarterback and they desperately need a quarterback of the future. And talked themselves into drafting Dwayne Haskins. Hypothetically if Lance falls to you and you are not in love with him and do not think he is going to be an elite quarterback then don’t just take him because he’s a quarterback.

1 minute ago, Desertbirds said:

If Hurts starts the rest of the season, then you have to move Wentz. (If I'm Wentz, I demand a trade.)

If you move Wentz, then you should move Ertz, Slay, Sanders, Brooks, Cox, Hargrave, McCleod, and Lane.

Dark times ahead...

I see no reason why they should move on from Sanders. He's still on his rookie deal.  I agree about Ertz.  I think they can't move on from Cox, Hargrave or Lane this offseason because of the salary cap hits.  With respect to Lane, I think his ankle injury may be more concerning than his salary cap hit in terms of a return to form.  McLeod is only on a 2 year deal so there's no reason to get rid of him going into 2021.  Slay could be traded but again I think they are stuck with him next season.  

The alternative is that Hurts comes in and looks reasonable.  Brooks returns and adds stability to the o-line next season and they win the division.  

Brown has been released 

2 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I see no reason why they should move on from Sanders. He's still on his rookie deal.  I agree about Ertz.  I think they can't move on from Cox, Hargrave or Lane this offseason because of the salary cap hits.  With respect to Lane, I think his ankle injury may be more concerning than his salary cap hit in terms of a return to form.  McLeod is only on a 2 year deal so there's no reason to get rid of him going into 2021.  Slay could be traded but again I think they are stuck with him next season.  

The alternative is that Hurts comes in and looks reasonable.  Brooks returns and adds stability to the o-line next season and they win the division.  

Agreed. Only one that's gone is Ertz and possibly BG