EMB Blog: 2020 Regular Season

[Mike31mt]

Honestly they just need to let Hurts play until he inevitably runs into trouble, and then put Wentz back in.  Thats the only way you can play this now, from a fan/owner perspective (we and Lurie will be suffering with Howie and Dougs failure after theyre gone)

Either Hurts or Wentz are gone after this year, its just a fact.  There is no way you can go into 2021 with a freaking QB competition.  Say whatever you want but thats not happening here.

The only hope is to gin up some value for Hurts and flip him for picks so the (hopefully) new GM/HC has as much to work with as possible

If Doug has any balls, he benches Peters, Alshon, and any other underperforming veteran for the rest of the season

[Ipiggles]

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Might need to include QB on that list...  I don't know that Wentz is fixable (definitely not by this coaching staff) and I never thought Hurts was a future franchise QB... unless maybe they decide to run the Baltimore Ravens' offense... which I would prefer they didn't.

Wentz is fixable- but it wont happen here. He needs to go somewhere new, with a good coaching staff, better WR's/Oline, a coach who calls more than  25% run plays.

He will play again at a high level, sad it wont be for us. We will probably be searching for years again for the franchise QB. 

 

Man I hate being on the QB carousel. It is so hard to find a franchise QB. We had one and we killed him.  

[RLC]

QB Trades

2020
- Kyle Allen for a 5th 
- Nick Foles for a 4th

2019
- Josh Dobbs for a 5
- Josh Rosen for a 2 & 5
- Ryan Tannehill for a 4
- Joe Flacco for a 4

2018
- AJ McCarron for a 5
- Bridgewater for a 3
- Brett Hundley for a 6

Given that Flacco/Foles/Tannehill all were on "expensive" contracts, we're looking at a 3-4 for Wentz.

[Iggles_Phan]

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I keep seeing stuff like this. $33.8M dead cap to trade him. We'd have to give up picks for a team to take that on. Picks we desperately need

Ok... we need to parse this out a bit, because this is inaccurate... at least in part.

It is correct to say that the Eagles would take a $33.8M hit to the cap in a trade of Wentz, however, they are on the hook for a $34.6M hit already.  So, they'd save $850k for 2021, and they'd get out from under the remainder of his contract, and not be on the hook moving forward.. freeing up $31M-$34M over the next 3 seasons (2022-2024).  So, if the Eagles really decided that he wasn't fixable, then moving on wouldn't be the worst move and they could do it sooner rather than later and just swallow the poison pill in 2021, when we already know that the roster will look like trash.

 

But, as for the 'need to give up picks' for another team to take that on, that's the inaccurate part. 

Any team acquiring Wentz in a trade, which I believe quite a few teams would be in line to do, would be on the hook for exactly the following:
 

2021 - $15.4M salary and $10M roster bonus (all fully guaranteed) = $25.4M
2022 - $22M salary - no guaranteed money... they could get out of it immediately if it failed and have nothing left on their cap.
2023 - $20M salary, $5M roster bonus - no guarantees.  $25M cost.
2024 - $21M salary, $5M roster bonus - no guarantees.  $25M cost.

 

So, if a team still believed in Wentz, they'd be incurring the risk of just $25.4M in 2021, and whatever draft compensation they'd be willing to trade... and they could rip up that contract, and give Wentz a new one, to change the structure to one that they are more comfortable with (which would likely be done before the trade is finalized... ) and spread that $25.4M risk out over a longer period, and give him a more incentivized contract with escalator clauses, etc.  There are some really bad teams, desperate for a QB, with a lot of cap space.

 

Wentz is movable, if the Eagles have decided that it just won't work here.  And if the move is to tear it all down and start all over again.. then dealing with that contract sooner rather than later likely is the best move.  Trouble would be getting under the cap first to make the trade possible.   Thanks, Howie!

[Casey @ Bat]

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Id like to go Defense, Defense with 5ish and 37ish. 

Micah from Penn state and a DB. Id also like to get a RB in the 3rd/4th as I want an Offense like SF/Titans/Browns with Wentz and think it would work

 

Miles Sanders should be fresh. 

[Mike030270]

5 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Honestly they just need to let Hurts play until he inevitably runs into trouble, and then put Wentz back in.  Thats the only way you can play this now, from a fan/owner perspective (we and Lurie will be suffering with Howie and Dougs failure after theyre gone)

Either Hurts or Wentz are gone after this year, its just a fact.  There is no way you can go into 2021 with a freaking QB competition.  Say whatever you want but thats not happening here.

The only hope is to gin up some value for Hurts and flip him for picks so the (hopefully) new GM/HC has as much to work with as possible

If Doug has any balls, he benches Peters, Alshon, and any other underperforming veteran for the rest of the season

Lol it's happening if Howie is still here

QB factory!

[Iggles_Phan]

7 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

They're not going WR again in the first round.

They will wait to see how Reagor, Fulgham, Hightower and Watkins pan out before going WR in the first again.

But if someone they really like at WR falls to them in the 2nd or 3rd, they might snatch him.

I'll give you Reagor.   The rest of that is wishcasting on Day 3 draft picks.  Fulgham had a flash, but quickly burned out.  And the new regime brought in will have no history with any of these other picks.  They will build the roster as they see fit and not worry about things like former draft status, because they didn't select them.

[austinfan]

Defense is the bigger draft need b/c of age, if you're gonna rebuild for two years, who on the defense will be on the field in 2023? So you have to draft in 2021 for 2023.

The offense is putrid, but the primary problem is the OL, Wentz was responsible for 1 of 4 sacks, the others, Peters was a sieve and Driscoll struggles to anchor, that's awfully tough on a RH QB when the right side collapses and you have to roll left with an inexperienced LT who is inconsistent holding his ground (Mailata is still learning how to anchor and Wentz doesn't know where he's going to be, with a veteran line the QB knows where the pocket will shift). Driscoll is far better suited to LG than RT, where his smarts, quick feet will work and his short arms (33") won't matter. So fix the OL next year and the offense will look much better. Hurts was also running for his life, he's a better runner but GB adjusted with a spy.

You can add to Sanders, Scott, Reagor, Fulgham, Hightower, Watkins and Goedert, but it's not a priority compared to the lack of young talent on defense. And they need a veteran WR over another project (i.e. go big (early) or go home).

using #59 on Hurts isn't a big deal, Chinn wouldn't save this defense (is he that much better than Wallace?), and as Howard showed, we didn't need to draft a RB, we just needed to sign a cheap power back as a #3 changeup. Since the only alternatives were Chinn, 2 RBs and a bunch of guys who wouldn't get on the field much (the other 15 picks after Hurts), much ado about nothing.

As far as Hurts affecting Wentz, uh, if you're worried about a late 2nd round pick when you just signed a $130M contract, you have bigger issues.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ace Nova]

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

I'll give you Reagor.   The rest of that is wishcasting on Day 3 draft picks.  Fulgham had a flash, but quickly burned out.  And the new regime brought in will have no history with any of these other picks.  They will build the roster as they see fit and not worry about things like former draft status, because they didn't select them.

You're assuming they clean house, including Howie.  I'm not. 

[Mike030270]

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Ok... we need to parse this out a bit, because this is inaccurate... at least in part.

It is correct to say that the Eagles would take a $33.8M hit to the cap in a trade of Wentz, however, they are on the hook for a $34.6M hit already.  So, they'd save $850k for 2021, and they'd get out from under the remainder of his contract, and not be on the hook moving forward.. freeing up $31M-$34M over the next 3 seasons (2022-2024).  So, if the Eagles really decided that he wasn't fixable, then moving on wouldn't be the worst move and they could do it sooner rather than later and just swallow the poison pill in 2021, when we already know that the roster will look like trash.

 

But, as for the 'need to give up picks' for another team to take that on, that's the inaccurate part. 

Any team acquiring Wentz in a trade, which I believe quite a few teams would be in line to do, would be on the hook for exactly the following:
 

2021 - $15.4M salary and $10M roster bonus (all fully guaranteed) = $25.4M
2022 - $22M salary - no guaranteed money... they could get out of it immediately if it failed and have nothing left on their cap.
2023 - $20M salary, $5M roster bonus - no guarantees.  $25M cost.
2024 - $21M salary, $5M roster bonus - no guarantees.  $25M cost.

 

So, if a team still believed in Wentz, they'd be incurring the risk of just $25.4M in 2021, and whatever draft compensation they'd be willing to trade... and they could rip up that contract, and give Wentz a new one, to change the structure to one that they are more comfortable with (which would likely be done before the trade is finalized... ) and spread that $25.4M risk out over a longer period, and give him a more incentivized contract with escalator clauses, etc.  There are some really bad teams, desperate for a QB, with a lot of cap space.

 

Wentz is movable, if the Eagles have decided that it just won't work here.  And if the move is to tear it all down and start all over again.. then dealing with that contract sooner rather than later likely is the best move.  Trouble would be getting under the cap first to make the trade possible.   Thanks, Howie!

Thanks for the clarification because I'm not savvy with the cap but that still looks like hell

[RLC]

 

[austinfan]

They're not giving up on Wentz, it's hard to find a starting QB with his upside, teams go decades without finding one. If you're rebuilding, you have no reason not to be patient with Wentz.

Hurts shows nothing that says more than marginal starter, but shows enough that he could be a top ten backup by next season and that has lots of value to a team (how many QBs play 16 games, year in and year out?).

[metal]

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

 

Please release him today. Like, right now.

[Asg 15]

24 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Just to be clear, they cant go back to Wentz now. They have to play Hurts. 

I have my doubts the results will be anything but marginal difference, with Hurts bailing out of the pocket faster and using his legs, which will produce some plays. But with Doug refusing to commit to the run, the bad oline play and WR's who take too long to uncover, and drop way too many catchable balls anyway, it wont make a big enough difference. 

The bigger issue is now trying to find a home for Wentz. 

Dont laugh now, but Dallas is a possibility. How would he do behind that Oline, with those Wr's and that run game? 

Their O line is just a shadow of what it was

[RLC]

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

They're not giving up on Wentz, it's hard to find a starting QB with his upside, teams go decades without finding one. If you're rebuilding, you have no reason not to be patient with Wentz.

The combination of a scary injury history, shaky mechanics and lost athleticism is enough for me to move on. If he can't win in the pocket, it's over.

[Iggles_Phan]

8 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

You're assuming they clean house, including Howie.  I'm not. 

If they don't then Lurie should be locked up for criminal insanity, and inciting a riot.

[Iggles_Phan]

9 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Thanks for the clarification because I'm not savvy with the cap but that still looks like hell

When moving off your supposed Franchise QB... that's about as bad as it gets in the NFL.   So... yeah.

[Godfather]

20 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

They're not going WR again in the first round.

They will wait to see how Reagor, Fulgham, Hightower and Watkins pan out before going WR in the first again.

But if someone they really like at WR falls to them in the 2nd or 3rd, they might snatch him.

They'll be in the same position again next year then. Reagor mediocre. Another reach. This team must really love average players

[Asg 15]

I understand the thought that the D is the biggest need but with the way the NFL is currently run the offense has all the advantages there it seems smarter to draft for a high powered offense,.  The D seems to be a necessary evil in the eyes of the league brass.

[Iggles_Phan]

7 minutes ago, RLC said:

 

They should have done that based purely on the way he was playing earlier in the season... that was truly conduct detrimental to the team!

[Ipiggles]

4 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

Their O line is just a shadow of what it was

They are injured like we are this year, sort of, they still have 3/5ths of their starters. 

Their Wr's though? And that run game? 

[Casey @ Bat]

4 minutes ago, metal said:

Please release him today. Like, right now.

Not sure you can just release such an outstanding performer. 

[Godfather]

9 minutes ago, RLC said:

 

He shouldn't be on the team to begin with

[Casey @ Bat]

4 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

1000% but I want 2 running backs. 2 Legit running backs (see cleveland)

Donnell Pumphrey is still available.

 

 

All kidding aside ... I’m with you on the type of offense. Tannehill and others look more than adequate.

[Ipiggles]

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

If they don't then Lurie should be locked up for criminal insanity, and inciting a riot.

They should move Howie, and the entire coaching staff. Key word "SHOULD"

However, the way Lurie has done things in the past, tells me he wont clean house, Most likely Doug is gone, and some coaching , he will retain some like Duce, Stoutland. And Give Howie 2 more years to improve.