6 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

First we had to get by the horrible take that he lost a step. Should he run more? If he has to, but no, I don't want the QB taking more hits. I want better designs that don't look like Nick has his hands in things so he can throw the ball.

Got it, he hasn’t lost a step but you think 5 attempts is sufficient. That means you want him to settle in to a more traditional pocket passer role. Then should he get the ball out faster than 3.41 seconds (which is 36th out of 37 qualifying QB’s)?

Just now, Swoop said:

I'm not saying Sirianni doesn't have his faults or doesn't deserve blame, but which of the two do you think is more likely:

The offense - regardless of who's at OC - looks largely the same year in and year out from a passing perspective because that's what the QB they gave a fat contract to is comfortable running

Or

Lurie continues to allow the head coach of the team he owns to sabotage each and every OC they being in and be towards the bottom of the league in passing year in and year out?

The answer is pretty obvious to anyone that takes two seconds to think

The fact that Lurie and Howie let Stout go to keep Nick is one of the most troubling things I've seen since he bought the team. They kept a clown vs the best OL coach in NFL history. That should have been the moment Nick was tossed out the door. He's getting up there in age so maybe dementia is setting in. So yes....the owner is allowing the coach to sabotage his team and every OC. Going back to the BYE when he shaved his head and KM took it all over and they suddenly looked better. It wasn't that he shaved his head it's someone else took over who knew what they were doing.

Hurts sucks at times. He flat out does. That happens more when he doesn't feel comfortable with the OL and doesn't feel comfortable with the calls. But again he's a tool that can be used to win even with it's limitations and flaws. He's outplayed Mahomes twice for a reasons. He played his ass off the first half vs the Bears and looked good the first half against the Titans. Again, the tool isn't going to change. Coaches have to use it the right way until they get a new one.

Cam needs to be thrown off the team. Forgetting the calls that's the first sign the coach isn't doing his job. I can't see how one of the kids could play worse so that's another spot Nick is sabotaging the team.

1 minute ago, VeeMak said:

Got it, he hasn’t lost a step but you think 5 attempts is sufficient. That means you want him to settle in to a more traditional pocket passer role. Then should he get the ball out faster than 3.41 seconds (which is 36th out of 37 qualifying QB’s)?

You said he can't run anymore which means he lost a step which is BS. I never said traditional pocket passer so that's more BS. I said run when he has to. Do I want them to design more runs? One or two have commonly been part of the plan. Do I want more? No.

Make no mistake, that was a terrible gutwrenching loss and they should have won. But need to keep it real. Our top 3 playmakers (Smith, Barkley & Goedert- and Goedert was looking great when he got injured) were out of the game and our 1st/2nd best offensive lineman (LJ) was out as well. How does Stafford look without Puka, Adams & Williams playing? And top left tackle and OL (Jackson) is out. I just think this is all hard to gauge and extrapolate currently to know what we have here. Losing Q alone, probably cost us this game.

7 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

Look at LaFleur in GB. Everyone likes him, but he consistently coaches small in big moments. Shanny in SF is another one of those who coaches small in big moments but everyone likes him. McVay, at times does that, but has enough git in him when needed. Dan Campbell is a great quote, everyone likes him but comes up small in big moments. All about picking your poison isn't it? I'll take Super Bowl visits/win vs having a one and done HC like LaFleur or whoever the latest patsy HC is at the Falcons.

The 4th downs yesterday felt desperate and panicked because of how badly stalled the O in the 2nd half was. If the O had moved the ball well all game and converted 3rd downs vs the blitz, different situation entirely. It didn't and its correct to lay blame at the HC for those calls, but its not out of the norm for Sirianni either. Its a mindset he wants across the team - no fear and it blew up in his face

I don't mind being agressive, but in that moment, at that particular drive in the game, beating a team essentially that we are not supposed to be beating - Sirianni you gotta take the 3 dude - not one level headed fan would've ripped him this monring for kicking the FG but we still end up losing. Sirianni has enough experience on that sideline at that time to make the right call and he screwed it up. And yes hindsight is 20/20 but in this league those little decisions change the outcome of the game.

This team overall is in a bad state, especially now with more injuries - when your in position to steal that game from LA - don't get cute, stay humble and trust your defense.

3 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

You said he can't run anymore which means he lost a step which is BS. I never said traditional pocket passer so that's more BS. I said run when he has to. Do I want them to design more runs? One or two have commonly been part of the plan. Do I want more? No.

So back to the question I asked that you didn’t answer. Since he won’t run anymore (even though he hasn’t lost a step), do you think he needs to get the ball out faster than 3.41 seconds?

Just now, VeeMak said:

So back to the question I asked that you didn’t answer. Since he won’t run anymore (even though he hasn’t lost a step), do you think he needs to get the ball out faster than 3.41 seconds?

If you keep asking dumb questions and I'll keep ignoring them.

Just now, Diehardfan said:

If you keep asking dumb questions and I'll keep ignoring them.

I think you need to figure out if you’re a "Diehardfan” or a "DiehardHurtsfan” or maybe you’re just a "Dhard4Hurtsfan”

8 minutes ago, jojodancer said:

Make no mistake, that was a terrible gutwrenching loss and they should have won. But need to keep it real. Our top 3 playmakers (Smith, Barkley & Goedert- and Goedert was looking great when he got injured) were out of the game and our 1st/2nd best offensive lineman (LJ) was out as well. How does Stafford look without Puka, Adams & Williams playing? And top left tackle and OL (Jackson) is out. I just think this all hard to gauge and extrapolate currently to know what we have here. Losing Q alone, probably cost us this game.

I think Stafford would still be able to throw for more than 10 yards in a half tho. Lol. 10 yards LMAO

Just now, VeeMak said:

I think you need to figure out if you’re a "Diehardfan” or a "DiehardHurtsfan” or maybe you’re just a "Dhard4Hurtsfan”

I don't recall ever seeing you post before today, so I obviously don't know who you are. It's common knowledge I am not a big fan of Hurts. The guy is who he is at this point. He's not going to get the ball out fast like Keenum. He's not going to progress through targets like Stafford. He doesn't need to run more. He's a SB MVP and outplayed Mahomes being who he is and that can be good enough to win, but he needs a better OL and coaches doing a better job.

Just now, Diehardfan said:

I don't recall ever seeing you post before today, so I obviously don't know who you are. It's common knowledge I am not a big fan of Hurts. The guy is who he is at this point. He's not going to get the ball out fast like Keenum. He's not going to progress through targets like Stafford. He doesn't need to run more. He's a SB MVP and outplayed Mahomes being who he is and that can be good enough to win, but he needs a better OL and coaches doing a better job.

Ah, okay…it’s Dhard4Hurtsfan.

I was watching Sports center last night and I saw that Saquon went out with a hamstring injury. Does this have anything to do with Siri not playing the starters during pre season ? you need to get your muscles in game shape.

We can **** about Hurts all we want, but he’s not going anywhere this year - we’ve seen the backups. If we want to try and fix this season, or at least get answers:

1. Cam has to be benched. Lampkin at LG, or Lampkin at C and Kendall at LG. Mailata, Kendall, Lampkin, Steen, Bell. Embrace the future.

2. I honestly think we need to either commit to the new system or go back to the old - right now everything is too predictable. Meshing 2 systems just isn’t working at all. I just don’t think we have the personnel for the system Mannion wants to run, especially at TE.

3. So that means scrap the under center stuff and back to gun.

Not sure what else we can do.

12 minutes ago, Eriv20 said:

I think Stafford would still be able to throw for more than 10 yards in a half tho. Lol. 10 yards LMAO

I think he throws 2 more picks tho. 😆

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

any chance it looks familiar because about 5 different play callers are compromising their unique system to adapt to the same qb? We’d rather assume that Siriani just insists on meddling and making the offense similarly horrible every year despite handing off the entire system and play calling to a new guy this year?

Any chance in the world they would allow a QB they supposedly don’t like or think is any good change the entire game plan and system 3 weeks into implementing it? Jalen can’t run a bootleg? Thats really the story people believe?

Blaming Jalen for obvious coaching decisions is getting old. Hurts isn’t prefect but he’s the only reason the team has 2 wins. They can’t run, they can’t block, and they can’t hold a lead. Even if Hurts is just mediocre, most of this crap is obviously not his fault.

If anyone who’s at least decent at Madden is coaching the team yesterday they win. It’s almost impossible to blow a 10 pt lead in the rain that fast.

Heck even if Cam doesnt run into Jalen they win.

10 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

We can **** about Hurts all we want, but he’s not going anywhere this year - we’ve seen the backups. If we want to try and fix this season, or at least get answers:

1. Cam has to be benched. Lampkin at LG, or Lampkin at C and Kendall at LG. Mailata, Kendall, Lampkin, Steen, Bell. Embrace the future.

2. I honestly think we need to either commit to the new system or go back to the old - right now everything is too predictable. Meshing 2 systems just isn’t working at all. I just don’t think we have the personnel for the system Mannion wants to run, especially at TE.

3. So that means scrap the under center stuff and back to gun.

Not sure what else we can do.

I know McKee sucked 1 game last year, and in the pre-season under the same new offense that Hurts is sucking in.

I know its too soon to start calling for McKee. But I think if it comes to it, which will be very soon- he should be given some grace period of adjusting to the new offense as well. Growing pains should be expected.

Its very likely that his skill set fits this offense a heck of a lot better than Hurts' does. So if he ever gets inserted, it would be prudent to give him more than 1 or 2 games to pass judgement.

I know McKee sucked that game last year, and this pre-season. But Im getting to the point where I think the team may look better with him QBing still...

We all saw him suck this pre-season and were like, welp... it was nice while it lasted. Guess hes not that good. Thats not really fair though. Hes dealing with the same set of circumstances as Hurts. New O. Bad OL play. Washed up Barkley.... Well actually, McKee never had the benefit of playing with those guys. They all look a whole lot worse playing with Hurts. They might all look quite a bit better playing with a real QB.

Interesting take that makes sense. Howie was tossed into the basement by one coach and he probably doesn't want another strong one. That's how he's lasted this long vs Doug who did a lot less.

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

Interesting take that makes sense. Howie was tossed into the basement by one coach and he probably doesn't want another strong one. That's how he's lasted this long vs Doug who did a lot less.

Set the sights on Siri, set the sights on Howie now. Anything to deflect from our horrible QB. This is why he is rightly considered a coach killer. New OC every single year of his career. Thats not a detriment to him. Thats a symptom if the disease that he is.

This team kicked off this season by clearly having major issues with both Off/Def lines in the first two games, but mostly the O line. After game four the D line looked slightly better, but the O line still looked terrible; and I say this even if they had Lane. This team cannot improve at all without a cohesive and competent O line. It affects everything from the play calling, Hurts, the run game on down. This has a domino effect on the defense. 0-12 on third downs and unable to manufacture any points in the 2nd half (a common theme now), places too much of a strain on any defense.

There are other factors like coaching. Teams cannot win committing double digit penalties nearly every game. Teams cannot win when their coach is more concerned with analytics rather than reason or reality. Taking risks is a double edge sword, but understand what you’re working with before taking them. "I gotta do a better job that” is fine to say, but saying you take responsibility for the problem rings hollow when the same issues occur over and over again.

In closing, the problems with this team are entirely up front and in the trenches.

Unfortunately its probably too late for this team to correct the O line significantly.

As for the D line, its gonna take some defensive risk taking by Fangio to make up for the lack of depth/talent at DE and lack of heart from the DTs.

This is a 6-11 team as it stands right now.

6 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I know McKee sucked 1 game last year, and in the pre-season under the same new offense that Hurts is sucking in.

I know its too soon to start calling for McKee. But I think if it comes to it, which will be very soon- he should be given some grace period of adjusting to the new offense as well. Growing pains should be expected.

Its very likely that his skill set fits this offense a heck of a lot better than Hurts' does. So if he ever gets inserted, it would be prudent to give him more than 1 or 2 games to pass judgement.

I know McKee sucked that game last year, and this pre-season. But Im getting to the point where I think the team may look better with him QBing still...

We all saw him suck this pre-season and were like, welp... it was nice while it lasted. Guess hes not that good. Thats not really fair though. Hes dealing with the same set of circumstances as Hurts. New O. Bad OL play. Washed up Barkley.... Well actually, McKee never had the benefit of playing with those guys. They all look a whole lot worse playing with Hurts. They might all look quite a bit better playing with a real QB.

McKee would be running for his life with this O Line and would be sacked to Bolivian.

7 minutes ago, DaBirds said:

Any chance in the world they would allow a QB they supposedly don’t like or think is any good change the entire game plan and system 3 weeks into implementing it? Jalen can’t run a bootleg? Thats really the story people believe?

Blaming Jalen for obvious coaching decisions is getting old. Hurts isn’t prefect but he’s the only reason the team has 2 wins. They can’t run, they can’t block, and they can’t hold a lead. Even if Hurts is just mediocre, most of this crap is obviously not his fault.

If anyone who’s at least decent at Madden is coaching the team yesterday they win. It’s almost impossible to blow a 10 pt lead in the rain that fast.

Heck even if Cam doesnt run into Jalen they win.

I don’t think Hurts can run the bootlegs with the current designs. Yes.

They run far too many condensed looks. Creating way too much clutter for him to interpret off the boot. He doesn’t have the arm to hit the tight windows on the move. His mechanics have always broken down on the move. Spread the formation out and move him you’ll see a bit more success. As is, using maybe 60% of the horizontal field available on a majority of the plays severely limits his abilities. Hes simply not a gun slinger. To expect him to have success in a play designed for one is silly.

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Set the sights on Siri, set the sights on Howie now. Anything to deflect from our horrible QB. This is why he is rightly considered a coach killer. New OC every single year of his career. Thats not a detriment to him. Thats a symptom if the disease that he is.

Before you took over nobody on the forum was more anti Hurts than me. The difference between us is I realized his flaws are never changing, but he is still a tool that can win. They won a SB with him and should have won two. If KM or Shane were coaching this team he'd look fine. Honestly, he looked good the first half vs the Titans and played his ass off vs the Bears. There is a reason the best OL coach of all time called Nick out and was tossed off the team. He is the problem and yeah so is Howie in some regards because Nick should have been fired the moment it came down to him or Stout. No other example is needed.

6 minutes ago, jojodancer said:

McKee would be running for his life with this O Line and would be sacked to Bolivian.

Or, he would get the ball out on time. Sometimes its the OL. Many other times, its the QB taking way too long to throw.

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

Or, he would get the ball out on time. Sometimes its the OL. Many other times, its the QB taking way too long to throw.

Dude, you are better than this. McKee looked like dog crap vs DC the end of last year with a bad OL.

25 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

We can **** about Hurts all we want, but he’s not going anywhere this year - we’ve seen the backups. If we want to try and fix this season, or at least get answers:

1. Cam has to be benched. Lampkin at LG, or Lampkin at C and Kendall at LG. Mailata, Kendall, Lampkin, Steen, Bell. Embrace the future.

2. I honestly think we need to either commit to the new system or go back to the old - right now everything is too predictable. Meshing 2 systems just isn’t working at all. I just don’t think we have the personnel for the system Mannion wants to run, especially at TE.

3. So that means scrap the under center stuff and back to gun.

Not sure what else we can do.

Benching cam doesn’t really help much, though it needs to happen. There’s systematic communication issues with blocking assignment calls and then any subsequent protection changes. That needs to be fixed. We could trade for Nelson and put him out there and it’s not going to fix hurts not stepping into clean pockets the times the OL does hold well. Or bad blitz pick up changes being called.

The plus out of yesterday was bell looked like an NFL caliber tackle.