1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not directed at you, but I wanted to ask when was the last time an offensive minded head coach was asked to change his entire scheme/system in year six as a head coach? I get it if it’s a defensive minded coach and they lost coordinators. The Shanahan, the McVey’s, the lafleur, the Reid’s and guys who have been there for over a half a decade aren’t changing their entire philosophy and system. They will add to it, and they will evolve it. But their core principles and the system isn’t entirely brand new to them. They just enhance and advance it of core building blocks

So i ask when was the last offensive minded HC in year six of being a head coach with his team has completely changed his entire scheme, system and philosophy? Also, how did it work out?

The funny thing is that Sirianni and Hurts have reached a cliff where one of them will be sacrificed and scapegoated for the survival of the other. There are 2 factions of Eagles fans...each deranged in their desire to blame and dispose of the other.

But Siri and Hurts are so incredibly similar to each other. I feel like you need to love or hate both to remain consistent. Both are far from the prototype for their jobs. Both make it look ugly. Both are quirky and eccentric. Both got their start here as concessions that no one really wanted or had much hope for. And it's really hard to identify what either one actually does very well around here.

And here we are, 6 years in, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB win, and an absurd winning % later as the sun is setting on their time here. It feels that no one as unimpressively deviant from convention or objective individual performance prototypes has ever kept their jobs this long in the NFL. And yet...like you said...it's also unprecedented for a QB with that winning % to be persistently dogged about getting replaced or a HC with that winning % stripped of all responsibility for his scheme, system, and philosophy.

Just a really bizarre situation.

Did anyone see the kid crying in his father’s arms over the loss, up in the London stadium? Poor kid has only seen one, probably two superbowls in his life…

Eagles defense the last 3 weeks have played 72, 84 and 72 snaps. Not counting penalties. If they don't fix this second half offense problem the D is going to eventually collapse.

9 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

There’s a lot we don’t know and are speculating through all this. I understand what’s being said, and there is some merit to it. Square peg/round hole is a thing.

If he’s truly just a cheerleader and essentially locked out of game planning meetings then sure. He can’t be expected to succeed.

If mannion was brought in and interviewed to marry systems, innovate processes and work hand in hand with Nick during the week to prepare the O for the team. Then it’s bad on Nick that he can’t despite game day keys being handed to Sean, help him navigate through processes because he’s incapable of understanding another system. A system he helped interview and hire Sean for.

I lean more toward the symbiotic relationship side. I don’t think Howie and Lurie told him to go sit in the corner and color while handing the lambo to a dude whose ink is still drying on his license.

Either way it all boils down to he can’t adapt. That’s the core issue.

I view it this way, you hired Mannion who has very little experience in the coaching to begin with. He hasn’t been in it a long time. Then you’re asking him as a first time OC to implement an entire scheme and offense. Well also hiring an entire coaching staff that fits what he wants to do. Then he lost probably his best coach he could’ve had in stoutland. Like if we wanna talk about integrating and marrying systems, Jeff Stoutland is probably one of the few coaches I trust that could do that. be able to reciprocate it to the players so that they learn it and can excel at it. Then you’re asking him to work with a head coach that has very little knowledge in it.

I believe in time that Mannion could do those things, but three years into a coaching career asking him to do all that was way too much. I don’t care if he was a quarterback in the league and he played in system similar to it. It’s entirely different as a coach to implement the scheme and be able to reciprocate it to the players so that they can maximize it to the best of their potential. That’s completely different than playing in it. Some people are good teachers who are able to communicate and help others flourish in it. and some can grasp the info but not explain it or help us understand it and not good teachers.

I’ve said there’s a ton to me if you’re going to run this offense, you need to make some hard decisions. That includes decisions on your head, coach and your quarterback. You might not like the answer, but the answer is probably telling because neither one of them are likely to flourish in a system that they don’t either know/can’t integrate or fit their skillset

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I view it this way, you hired Mannion who has very little experience in the coaching to begin with. He hasn’t been in it a long time. Then you’re asking him as a first time OC to implement an entire scheme and offense. Well also hiring an entire coaching staff that fits what he wants to do. Then he lost probably his best coach he could’ve had in stoutland. Like if we wanna talk about integrating and marrying systems, Jeff Stoutland is probably one of the few coaches I trust that could do that. be able to reciprocate it to the players so that they learn it and can excel at it. Then you’re asking him to work with a head coach that has very little knowledge in it.

I believe in time that Mannion could do those things, but three years into a coaching career asking him to do all that was way too much. I don’t care if he was a quarterback in the league and he played in system similar to it. It’s entirely different as a coach to implement the scheme and be able to reciprocate it to the players so that they can maximize it to the best of their potential. That’s completely different than playing in it. Some people are good teachers who are able to communicate and help others flourish in it. and some can grasp the info but not explain it or help us understand it and not good teachers.

I’ve said there’s a ton to me if you’re going to run this offense, you need to make some hard decisions. That includes decisions on your head, coach and your quarterback. You might not like the answer, but the answer is probably telling because neither one of them are likely to flourish in a system that they don’t either know/can’t integrate or fit their skillset

They did get Grizzard though.

I do think Stoutland fully expected the personnel on this OL to collapse and that factored into his decision to leave.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

They did get Grizzard though.

I do think Stoutland fully expected the personnel on this OL to collapse and that factored into his decision to leave.

For sure, I think how he was treated last year was another huge factor.

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The funny thing is that Sirianni and Hurts have reached a cliff where one of them will be sacrificed and scapegoated for the survival of the other. There are 2 factions of Eagles fans...each deranged in their desire to blame and dispose of the other.

But Siri and Hurts are so incredibly similar to each other. I feel like you need to love or hate both to remain consistent. Both are far from the prototype for their jobs. Both make it look ugly. Both are quirky and eccentric. Both got their start here as concessions that no one really wanted or had much hope for. And it's really hard to identify what either one actually does very well around here.

And here we are, 6 years in, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB win, and an absurd winning % later as the sun is setting on their time here. It feels that no one as unimpressively deviant from convention or objective individual performance prototypes has ever kept their jobs this long in the NFL. And yet...like you said...it's also unprecedented for a QB with that winning % to be persistently dogged about getting replaced or a HC with that winning % stripped of all responsibility for his scheme, system, and philosophy.

Just a really bizarre situation.

The thing I see the most is there’s factions. There’s a faction that wants hurts gone and Siri need to stay. Defending sirianni even though he’s also at fault. He’s not blameless. Or hurts to stay and sirianni has to be gone. Like sirianni he is also at fault and is not blameless.

I’m over in the faction that you gotta get rid of both of them if you wanna run this scheme/system. that is not saying neither of them can’t be successful. They obviously can be. But if howie and Jeff want to run this system neither are good fits. Imo the reality is if they keep this system then eventually you are moving on from both

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

They did get Grizzard though.

I do think Stoutland fully expected the personnel on this OL to collapse and that factored into his decision to leave.

Gizzard got fired one year after being handed the OC job in Tampa. Only year as an OC in his entire career. No offense another guy who failed elsewhere as an OC like Kuper who was a failed OL coach in Minnesota. There was a reason why he was available. Also up til 2024 his highest position was offensive quality control coach. That’s not exactly a ton of experience as passing game coordinator or OC or decades of coaching one unit like stoutland had with one unit.

I think the bigger thing is, they pissed him off by taking the run game coordinator from him. I think if he had that he would still be here.

5 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Eagles defense the last 3 weeks have played 72, 84 and 72 snaps. Not counting penalties. If they don't fix this second half offense problem the D is going to eventually collapse.

This where not having a run game is going to kill everything. It's making the offense one dimensional and not eating any clock. It's a bigger issue than anything going on with the passing game. 20 total yards yesterday from both RBs.

48 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

This is a highly under-delivered point.

First off, I'm not defending Sirianni. I understand the rationale to fire him. But they integrated a brand new offense in which he has had ZERO exposure to in his NFL career. He may call the timeouts. He may give the pep talks. He may be the idiot that didn't have the kicker put it through the end zone. It's just not productive or even remotely introspective to just blame the offense on Sirianni again. He's just not running the show here.

My concern with Sirianni is how much does he think he understand but he does not understand. What we may be seeing is a combination of an inexperienced OC and a HC that is in full on Dunning-Kruger about what he understands about the offense. This may lead to Sirianni not being in the best position to get the team prepared. He is still running the practices. He is still in the game planning meetings. His focus and understanding may lead him to make mistakes getting the team ready. In 2025, they ran draws out of 3rd and long because I think that fit Sirianni's concern about avoiding turnovers. Now, they seem to run WR screen plays. I think that conservative bent in the offense is from Sirianni. He may be pushing to include plays that are just ineffective and not matched to the personnel.

11 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Eagles defense the last 3 weeks have played 72, 84 and 72 snaps. Not counting penalties. If they don't fix this second half offense problem the D is going to eventually collapse.

Imo the collapse is inevitable. It’s a matter of when. Dam has cracks. As you see their defense in the 4th quarters is already leaking water. Eventually the entire dam is going to break.

5 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Why does the cap hit against us for a traded player and not against the team that traded for him?

Ouch !

23 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not directed at you, but I wanted to ask when was the last time an offensive minded head coach was asked to change his entire scheme/system in year six as a head coach? I get it if it’s a defensive minded coach and they lost coordinators. The Shanahan, the McVey’s, the lafleur, the Reid’s and guys who have been there for over a half a decade aren’t changing their entire philosophy and system. They will add to it, and they will evolve it. But their core principles and the system isn’t entirely brand new to them. They just enhance and advance it of core building blocks

So i ask when was the last offensive minded HC in year six of being a head coach with his team has completely changed his entire scheme, system and philosophy? Also, how did it work out?

This is more food for thought than anything.

What is Nicks scheme though? He has 1 ‘disciple’ in Steichen. 2022 is a far ways off now. But I think you have to point to that. Johnson was green and im not entirely sure he was given a fair shake. That 23 offense was light years ahead of where we are now. Honestly most of the issues that year was the defensive collapse under desai . Though we are seeing the same issues be prevalent, no answers for the blitz and inconsistent play.

24….weird weird year. Fangio and Moore is brought in with an outside perspective. It was largely a failure till the bye when the OL took stouts binder into the office and said things what we are doing. An all time great D carried them till week 11 when the pass game clicked and they won a SB. But there’s your example of bringing in a 100% new thing to both sides of the ball.

Last year was a complete abomination. Patullo couldn’t even call plays. For all the hate hurts gets sometimes, I’m fairly certain half the time he had maybe the formation called before the mic cut and was operating off nothing. And they pushed stout out the door.

Fast forward to this year, we got an outside guy coming in. We don’t have a run game we can lean on and teams are attacking us the same way they did in 23. The roster is another year older and they’re all learning a new process again. But we don’t have stout to lean on. Instead we have this new doofus.

This year might just be a cacophony of failures like 23 was. Siri has to adapt and earn his money…he’s simply not right now. Part reasons of his own. Part out of his control. The hope was a last ditch 24 repeat…we are getting 23.

We are going to have this debate here in a couple years when he comes up for HoF nomination. How good of a coach was Mike Tomlin? A guy that inherited a top 5 DC of all time and had a HoF QB most of his career and limped to a very impressive streak of 500 or better football before he was soft fired.

8 minutes ago, Seventy_Yard_FG said:

Why does the cap hit against us for a traded player and not against the team that traded for him?

Just because of how Howie structured his contracts

'24 was an anomaly with the kind of run blocking they got 5 across for one year with that OL and Barkley running straight through it. Nothing more nothing less separated the 2023/2025/2026 offenses from 2024.

The faster the Eagles accept that, the faster they can move on to something new.

26 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Eagles defense the last 3 weeks have played 72, 84 and 72 snaps. Not counting penalties. If they don't fix this second half offense problem the D is going to eventually collapse.

You mean like it did already against the Rams?

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

Look, I'm obviously in the blame Hurts camp. But Mannion's judgement needs to be sharply questioned right now. He chose to come here. He knows who the QB is. He knows what his system is.

If you blame Hurts, then you really need to question Mannion's IQ with this. And if you don't blame Hurts, well, then you already have a very low opinion of Mannion.

Who else was interviewing him? Why wouldn't he take an OC job

4 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

And our mobile QB doesn't want to run anymore

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

'24 was an anomaly with the kind of run blocking they got 5 across for one year with that OL and Barkley running straight through it. Nothing more nothing less separated the 2023/2025/2026 offenses from 2024.

The faster the Eagles accept that, the faster they can move on to something new.

This is my line of thinking. The FO giving it the good ol college try to repeat 24 before blowing it up. Basically the same rope they gave Doug. At the end of the day Siri is a head coach at the NFL level…I get the he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know aspect. At the end of the day he’s the glue in film study that is supposed to be the guru deciphering things for the staff as a whole though. If he can’t comprehend another scheme…that’s bad.

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Who else was interviewing him? Why wouldn't he take an OC job

The NFL is a series of tidal waves that wipe out coaching staffs. You don't take every single promotion the second it presents itself. He misread the situation here and it will set his career back years.

12 hours ago, Lambo said:

Just checked the box score, don’t see the Jags KO return TD

I feel like you are being obtuse on purpose.

12 hours ago, Lambo said:

Who are these two best playmakers??

I feel like you are being obtuse on purpose.