EMB Blog: 2021 Offseason

[ManuManu]

So take away those two admittedly horrible games and Slay gave up 46 catches for 482 yards in the other 12 games (not counting week 17 against Washington because I don’t know what he did). 

That’s an average of 3.8 catches for 40.1 yards. 

Considering he shadowed top receivers much of the time, that’s very good. 

[ManuManu]

While we’re talking about cost and value, it doesn’t make sense to say player X is the X paid player at his position, so he didn’t return value because he didn’t play at a top X level. 

Contract values go up. Almost no player gets paid according to where they rank in the league. Look at FA deals every single year.

Slay’s contract was written in a way to get out of rather easily. Unfortunately that’s no longer the case. Howie signed him to a good contract initially, a team friendly one. That’s no longer the case now that Howie  kicked the can on his contract. 

[RLC]

Eagles now are -34M in cap room, according to OverTheCap. That includes the Kelce/Slay restructures.

On deck: Graham, Barnett, Lane. Goodwin is an easy 4M too.

[HazletonEagle]

This is a weird scouting report for a player who runs a 4.24 40

I havent watched him closely yet. Knowing his athleticism and seeing that hes grabby, and lacks elite play speed Im lead to believe hes severely lacking instincts for the position and maybe has some tight hips.

From 2019 to 2020, Eric Stokes has certainly improved at being more opportunistic with regards to securing turnovers. He can mirror from a press position, but he can afford to clean up his technique—particularly his eye discipline in man coverage and getting "grabby” at the top of the route. He has shown the ability to play in man or zone from a press and occasional off position, but he lacks elite play speed. He's not a dynamic closer at the top of the route and lacks elite short-area, stop-and-start agility. His skill set may be best suited in a predominantly zone situation where he can play with vision and utilize his ball skills to make plays. 

Ideal Role: Outside-only corner in sub-package situations. 

Scheme Fit: His skill set is best suited in a predominantly zone scheme. 

[Mike030270]

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

This is a weird scouting report for a player who runs a 4.24 40

I havent watched him closely yet. Knowing his athleticism and seeing that hes grabby, and lacks elite play speed Im lead to believe hes severely lacking instincts for the position and maybe has some tight hips.

From 2019 to 2020, Eric Stokes has certainly improved at being more opportunistic with regards to securing turnovers. He can mirror from a press position, but he can afford to clean up his technique—particularly his eye discipline in man coverage and getting "grabby” at the top of the route. He has shown the ability to play in man or zone from a press and occasional off position, but he lacks elite play speed. He's not a dynamic closer at the top of the route and lacks elite short-area, stop-and-start agility. His skill set may be best suited in a predominantly zone situation where he can play with vision and utilize his ball skills to make plays. 

Ideal Role: Outside-only corner in sub-package situations. 

Scheme Fit: His skill set is best suited in a predominantly zone scheme. 

I thought the 40 time wasn't official but it is weird. Maybe the person who wrote it hasn't really looked at his tape much

[HazletonEagle]

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I thought the 40 time wasn't official but it is weird. Maybe the person who wrote it hasn't really looked at his tape much

the 40 is pretty legit. I mean, you can see him moving. And they used the same timing system that the combine uses, and the same people that time at the combine were timing there, from what I read. 

[Utebird]

23 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Here’s a sampling of Slay’s work against top receivers this year, per ProFootballFocus (entering week 17):

Terry McLaurin — 3 targets, 2 catches, 28 yards

Cooper Kupp — 2 targets, 1 catch, 5 yards

Robert Woods — 2 targets, 1 catch 13 yards

A.J. Green — 5 targets, 4 catches, 31 yards

JuJu Smith-Schuster — 2 targets, 1 catch, 11 yards

Chase Claypool — 4 targets, 2 catches, 26 yards

Darius Slayton (2 games) — 7 targets, 6 catches, 94 yards 

Michael Gallup (2 games) — 4 targets, 3 catches, 28 yards

Jarvis Landry — 1 target, 1 catch, 13 yards

DK Metcalf — 11 targets, 8 catches, 158 yards

Davante Adams — 7 targets, 6 catches, 100 yards, 2 TDs

Michael Thomas — 3 targets, 3 catches, 33 yards

Amari Cooper (2 games) — 1 target, 1 catch, 35 yards

This season in 14 games, Slay has given up 57 catches on 74 targets for 740 yards, according to ProFootballFocus. That comes out to 4.07 receptions and 52.9 yards per game.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/has-darius-slay-been-cornerback1-eagles-wanted-2020-season

At face value that list is more impressive than it actually is.

Mclaurin had a bunch of scrubs throwing to him, Cooper Kupp was battling a knee Injury AJ green really??? AJ green is 3rd best receiver on his team.

Slay played well against steelers.

Slayton was battling a foot Injury.

Cowboys one game was some qb getting his first start and the second was andy dalton😒

Hardly impressive.

landry playing with a broken rib.

DK and Davante totally embarrassed him.

Michael thomas was battling injuries all year and had a down year and Amari cooper gave up around week 5 and as mentioned had bad qbs.

Slay played average he was very up and down battled his own injuries and like most of the team had a down year.

Also lots of teams threw away from him not because they were scared of him but because throwing against maddox or whatever trash was on the other side was an easy completion.

Slay wasn't worth top five corner money he nor his position move the needle enough to be worth it in my opinion 

Even if he had an all pro year it's not worth it to me simply because the league rules puts defense particularly corners at such a disadvantage.

 

 

 

 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

12 minutes ago, RLC said:

Eagles now are -34M in cap room, according to OverTheCap. That includes the Kelce/Slay restructures.

On deck: Graham, Barnett, Lane. Goodwin is an easy 4M too.

You'd have to sign Barnett and Goodwin to extensions to restructure them in a way that gives any cap relief, only Barnett is worth keeping around so it depends what sort of offer he wants.

[greend]

On 3/5/2021 at 4:00 PM, NCiggles said:

On the Square - is the recommendation.  

Thank you

[Original Sin]

You read 5 scouting reports you get 5 different ones , I use my own eye

 

DJ on Stokes  , from January 

Stokes is a size/speed cornerback with good ball skills. He flashes a one-hand jam to re-route in press coverage, but he's a little rigid when he has to open up and turn/run. He has plenty of recovery speed if he's beat off the line. He has good eyes to key/read and drive on the ball in off coverage. He is very aware in the deep third, showing the ability to find and play the ball. He isn't a smooth/fluid mover, but he is very explosive in a straight line. He's an effective blitzer with timing and burst to close. He is a reliable tackler in space, as well. Overall, Stokes has some tightness, but I love his size/speed combination. He has a chance to develop into a solid starter at the next level.

[eagle45]

53 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

So take away those two admittedly horrible games and Slay gave up 46 catches for 482 yards in the other 12 games (not counting week 17 against Washington because I don’t know what he did). 

That’s an average of 3.8 catches for 40.1 yards. 

Considering he shadowed top receivers much of the time, that’s very good. 

I don't see how you can just take away 2 horrible games.  If you take away any starter's 2 worst games, they are going to have very good numbers.

Slay IS very good.  I'm not going to argue that anyway.  But I will argue that he's not nearly worth the investment.

[HazletonEagle]

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don't see how you can just take away 2 horrible games.  If you take away any starter's 2 worst games, they are going to have very good numbers.

Slay IS very good.  I'm not going to argue that anyway.  But I will argue that he's not nearly worth the investment.

He was responding to Utebirds wildly erroneous statement that Slay struggled all year. Many said Slay was very good other than 2 games while he played injured. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

6 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

He was responding to Utebirds wildly erroneous statement that Slay struggled all year. Many said Slay was very good other than 2 games while he played injured. 

I think Slay was good. I'm not sure I'd go as far to say he was very good. I think early on he was very good but then he had his struggles and after that I think he was good. And I mean they traded for him to be that #1 corner to shut down the opponents #1 WR and he didn't do that against the top guys.

[ManuManu]

12 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don't see how you can just take away 2 horrible games.  If you take away any starter's 2 worst games, they are going to have very good numbers.

Slay IS very good.  I'm not going to argue that anyway.  But I will argue that he's not nearly worth the investment.

That’s the point. 

[DeathByEagle]

2 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think Slay was good. I'm not sure I'd go as far to say he was very good. I think early on he was very good but then he had his struggles and after that I think he was good. And I mean they traded for him to be that #1 corner to shut down the opponents #1 WR and he didn't do that against the top guys.

Called it when we traded for Slay, he would not be the same player under Jim's defense. Jim's defense put DBs and LBs in losing situations. Lets hope Gannon uses a better scheme, and is a lot less predictable to get more our of the secondary. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Just now, DeathByEagle said:

Called it when we traded for Slay, he would not be the same player under Jim's defense. Jim's defense put DBs and LBs in losing situations. Lets hope Gannon uses a better scheme, and is a lot less predictable to get more our of the secondary. 

I mean I know what you're saying (and I wasn't a huge fan of the trade) but I think bringing in a guy who has been a top CB should have allowed him to fare well in Schwartz scheme. 

[UK Eagle]

If you can draft consistently well on the D side of the ball, then it allows you to churn out players into FA for comp picks and draft their replacements. It allows cap efficiency for spending elsewhere. You won't hit on all picks but when a team like the Eagles are incapable of drafting competently on D, it means you have to dip into FA and it costs money.

The Eagles have a lot of catching up to do on drafting non-line players

[ManuManu]

7 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think Slay was good. I'm not sure I'd go as far to say he was very good. I think early on he was very good but then he had his struggles and after that I think he was good. And I mean they traded for him to be that #1 corner to shut down the opponents #1 WR and he didn't do that against the top guys.

Good or very good, whatever, it’s semantics, but to suggest he struggled all year is a ridiculous statement.

[Mike030270]

39 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

the 40 is pretty legit. I mean, you can see him moving. And they used the same timing system that the combine uses, and the same people that time at the combine were timing there, from what I read. 

Yea he looked fast in the video. Then why did they not make the time official? I thought someone posted a tweet saying it wasn't going to be counted

[ManuManu]

4 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Called it when we traded for Slay, he would not be the same player under Jim's defense. Jim's defense put DBs and LBs in losing situations. Lets hope Gannon uses a better scheme, and is a lot less predictable to get more our of the secondary. 

Lol. He got toasted two games and was very good the others. All while being injured himself. 

You guys are nuts. 

4 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I mean I know what you're saying (and I wasn't a huge fan of the trade) but I think bringing in a guy who has been a top CB should have allowed him to fare well in Schwartz scheme. 

He did fare well. 

[HazletonEagle]

Just now, Mike030270 said:

Yea he looked fast in the video. Then why did they not make the time official? I thought someone posted a tweet saying it wasn't going to be counted

his second time was never reported because he didnt hold for 3 before starting. The first one is the one they went with. 

[Mike030270]

5 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Called it when we traded for Slay, he would not be the same player under Jim's defense. Jim's defense put DBs and LBs in losing situations. Lets hope Gannon uses a better scheme, and is a lot less predictable to get more our of the secondary. 

I remember when it happened I questioned whether Schwartz would have him line up 10 yards off like he does everyone else. Lots said there was no way they'd trade for Slay and not play to his strengths lol

If we weren't in a rebuild then I'd want to keep him but I think we should have traded him

Maybe the new DC wont have his DBs give 10 yard cushions

[ManuManu]

I give Slay a ton of credit too for sticking it out while getting torched. Sidney Jones would have pulled at his hammy and limped off by the second quarter. 

Slay wasn’t close to 100 percent and battled his butt off. Even while getting torched his coverage wasn’t that bad. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Good or very good, whatever, it’s semantics, but to suggest he struggled all year is a ridiculous statement.

Oh he definitely didn't struggle all year. In fact he started very well. The first few weeks we didn't speak a lot of Slay but that is a compliment for a CB I think. But he definitely had struggles and I think overall he was just good. And ultimately they didn't trade for just good. 

[RLC]

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

I give Slay a ton of credit too for sticking it out while getting torched. Sidney Jones would have pulled at his hammy and limped off by the second quarter. 

Slay wasn’t close to 100 percent and battled his butt off. Even while getting torched his coverage wasn’t that bad. 

A CB is getting torched against a good WR, and the DC decides to not give him help all game. 

Did Slay play poorly? Of course. Schwartz did him no favors either.