Alphagrand Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 26 minutes ago, Freshmilk said: He has played with Carter, Briere, Gagne, Hartnell, Simmonds, Schenn, Jagr, Coots, Timmons, Pronger...he has been a good player but never one that can carry a team. Only scored 30 plus goals once but that was his 102 point season - his only 100 point season- but it was a great one. I've loved him but understand he is 2nd-3rd tier compared to his contemporaries. Really good player though. You were quite a bit more diplomatic in your reply than I could have been. Giroux has been a good player most of his career, but the HOF portion of the comment is worthy of a derisive snicker. Not even a point-a-game player, one SCF appearance early in his career as a 3rd line player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest justrelax Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 I don't know much about Sirianni's offense but if we keep our staple run of the outside zone we need mobile OL. We have that in Seumalo and Kelce. Dickerson and Herbig are not remotely as mobile and our run offense must of necessity change. Stoutland ran a primarily inside zone offense at Alabama and OZ here. I'll be interested to see what we do this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Sin Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, Utebird said: Hurts may not have the strongest arm but he seems to be a qb who can command an offense and manage a game, which I think Siriani is going to expect him to do Will be nice to see an offense that isnt so vanilla and predictable. More about spinning it , then how far you can throw it . Kurt Warner says 99 % of all throws are under 40 yards . give me a accurate QB who knows where to go with the ball , and can navigate the pocket . I could care less if he can run or throw the ball 75 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpac55 Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Buying some DogeCoin just to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Sin Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 I have been saying buy crypto , I personally will only buy , ZEC and BTC Grayscale Investments, the largest cryptocurrency asset manager in the world, has partnered with the New York Giants to become the first crypto sponsor of an NFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 22 minutes ago, Original Sin said: More about spinning it , then how far you can throw it . Kurt Warner says 99 % of all throws are under 40 yards . give me a accurate QB who knows where to go with the ball , and can navigate the pocket . I could care less if he can run or throw the ball 75 yards Yup. I think hurts last year showed that he has the anbility to navigate the pocket. Wentz was so chaotic in the pocket, his feet were are all and there was no method to the madness no flow Dan Marino wasnt a mobile qb in the traditional sense but he knew how to work the pocket and manipulate the d with his movement and eyes in the pocket Hurts showed last year to have pretty good pocket awareness and I think Howie has mentioned before Hurts peripheral vision and how well he sees everything around him. If he can trust his eyes over running he could be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindside Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Utebird said: Yup. I think hurts last year showed that he has the anbility to navigate the pocket. Wentz was so chaotic in the pocket, his feet were are all and there was no method to the madness no flow Dan Marino wasnt a mobile qb in the traditional sense but he knew how to work the pocket and manipulate the d with his movement and eyes in the pocket Hurts showed last year to have pretty good pocket awareness and I think Howie has mentioned before Hurts peripheral vision and how well he sees everything around him. If he can trust his eyes over running he could be effective. Hurts needs to learn how to get the ball out quickly. When you get a guy like Smith, whose best asset is initial separation, you need your QB to be able to utilize that. To trust that he’ll get open on those comebacks and deep outs and be able to throw the ball Before he makes his cut, to a spot. I’m hoping that’s what they’ll work on this summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinfan Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, justrelax said: I don't know much about Sirianni's offense but if we keep our staple run of the outside zone we need mobile OL. We have that in Seumalo and Kelce. Dickerson and Herbig are not remotely as mobile and our run offense must of necessity change. Stoutland ran a primarily inside zone offense at Alabama and OZ here. I'll be interested to see what we do this year. Having a big, strong center changes things. Kelce used to double, then peel off to the second level, with Dickerson, he can handle a NT one on one, freeing a guard to take off to the second level. On the zone runs, Dickerson isn't going to have the feet to do the things Kelce did, but he can seal off the DT, and allow the G on the opposite side pull behind him. I think the key is the guards, right now we have athletic guards flanking the center, unless Herbig is a lot quicker with the lost weight, putting him next to Dickerson would require a fundamental change in blocking schemes, Dillard, Driscoll or Opeta at G would be more of the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just now, blindside said: Hurts needs to learn how to get the ball out quickly. When you get a guy like Smith, whose best asset is initial separation, you need your QB to be able to utilize that. To trust that he’ll get open on those comebacks and deep outs and be able to throw the ball Before he makes his cut, to a spot. I’m hoping that’s what they’ll work on this summer Yup Smith in college beat his man a lot of time with in the first yard of the route right off the LOS and Hurts needs to get the timing down with him, Hurts will have enough weapons around him this year and an O line that gives him time so really it's up to Siriani to call the right plays and Hurts to execute them Should be fun to watch, whether the team wins a lot this season I still think it will be fun to watch so many young guys come into their own together or fall flat on their faces Hopefully they do more flying than falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinfan Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 minute ago, blindside said: Hurts needs to learn how to get the ball out quickly. When you get a guy like Smith, whose best asset is initial separation, you need your QB to be able to utilize that. To trust that he’ll get open on those comebacks and deep outs and be able to throw the ball Before he makes his cut, to a spot. I’m hoping that’s what they’ll work on this summer Hurt's running has a lot of value to him as a pocket QB. Because it dictates to the defense. Against a QB who is a true running threat like Hurts, man schemes are an invitation to run for a first down. So he forces teams to play more zone or keep a spy in (and one less men in coverage). But to be effective, this threat needs Hurts to show he can beat teams from the pocket, by forcing them to respect the pass, Hurts becomes far more dangerous as a runner. The threat to pass on the run forces the DEs to employ more of a mush rush to maintain contain. It all comes down to establishing himself as a passer first, then use the threat to run to open up the field for his WRs (LBs have shorter drops, which means more room between LBs and safeties). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, austinfan said: Having a big, strong center changes things. Kelce used to double, then peel off to the second level, with Dickerson, he can handle a NT one on one, freeing a guard to take off to the second level. On the zone runs, Dickerson isn't going to have the feet to do the things Kelce did, but he can seal off the DT, and allow the G on the opposite side pull behind him. I think the key is the guards, right now we have athletic guards flanking the center, unless Herbig is a lot quicker with the lost weight, putting him next to Dickerson would require a fundamental change in blocking schemes, Dillard, Driscoll or Opeta at G would be more of the same. Well OL that move like Kelce don't grow on trees, he's a unique mover for his an OL, he's used almost like a FB as he pulls and gets out in front of RBs right off the snap. I imagine once kelce is gone the blocking scheme will naturally change a bit, he's just so unique in what he does that it will be difficult to replicate with someone who doesn't have his unique set of abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connecticut Eagle Posted May 5, 2021 Author Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Utebird said: In 2022 I'd have zero problems with an interior line of seumalo dickerson Herbig no matter where the 3 line up All 3 can play the 3 IOL positions, will come down to where Stoutland thinks all 3 fit. There has been chatter that FO is looking to move Brooks sooner than later and with kelces likely retirement after this season those positions will need replacing and it will be nice to have guys that have experience. Not sure if dickerson plays this year due to injury I could see howie either pup him or IR him though it would be nice to get him some reps before starting him next year. As for Driscoll I'm not sure??? I like him but like herbigs size at OG and driscoll doesn't really have ideal length at OT. I could see him as the 6th Lineman who can play RT And OG. I would have a problem. I see Herbig as an IOL version of Big V. A really good backup, but an average at best starter. We should strive for excellence in our OL. It was a major component of the SB victory. Build through the lines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connecticut Eagle Posted May 5, 2021 Author Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Utebird said: Well OL that move like Kelce don't grow on trees, he's a unique mover for his an OL, he's used almost like a FB as he pulls and gets out in front of RBs right off the snap. I imagine once kelce is gone the blocking scheme will naturally change a bit, he's just so unique in what he does that it will be difficult to replicate with someone who doesn't have his unique set of abilities. I love Kelce. A favorite Eagle. Despite his prowess in athleticism, you could always count on 3-4 plays a game where he gets blow off the LOS and kills a play. Dickerson would solve that issue. He is also athletic enough for outside zone. Most teams consistently run it without a Kelce-type at center. Dickerson at center will look different, but not necessarily worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just now, Connecticut Eagle said: I would have a problem. I see Herbig as an IOL version of Big V. A really good backup, but an average at best starter. We should strive for excellence in our OL. It was a major component of the SB victory. Build through the lines! Yes and it's tough to have 5 all pros at OL. And while one can say Herbig is the OG version if Vaitai the eagles won a super bowl with Vaitai playing next to an average guard in Wisnewski. I think the eagles can win with Herbig at OG. I don't think one needs all Pros at all OL positions to win, one just needs capable players. Peters lane kelce brooks those guys were dynamic in their primes and all 4 have been All pro and I think that will be tough to duplicate especially seeing as the 4 of them didn't play a ton together due to injury. I don't think Herbig will ever be all pro and I also think he's capable and won't be a reason a team isn't winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freshmilk Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 59 minutes ago, Alphagrand said: You were quite a bit more diplomatic in your reply than I could have been. Giroux has been a good player most of his career, but the HOF portion of the comment is worthy of a derisive snicker. Not even a point-a-game player, one SCF appearance early in his career as a 3rd line player. He's 4th in points over the past decade so HOF isn't out of the question. Not a shoe in, but I think the voting will be close either way. He is a great person and is loved by his team and that goes a long way now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphagrand Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, austinfan said: Hurt's running has a lot of value to him as a pocket QB. Because it dictates to the defense. Against a QB who is a true running threat like Hurts, man schemes are an invitation to run for a first down. So he forces teams to play more zone or keep a spy in (and one less men in coverage). But to be effective, this threat needs Hurts to show he can beat teams from the pocket, by forcing them to respect the pass, Hurts becomes far more dangerous as a runner. The threat to pass on the run forces the DEs to employ more of a mush rush to maintain contain. It all comes down to establishing himself as a passer first, then use the threat to run to open up the field for his WRs (LBs have shorter drops, which means more room between LBs and safeties). Hurts being a running QB will only dictate to the defense if he’s able to throw downfield as he climbs the pocket, escapes outside, or however he goes about breaking down the defense. Most NFL coordinators will be fine allowing the occasional 10-15 yard QB scramble; it’s the Russell Wilson-like ability to throw downfield to the WR that opens up when the defense breaks down that makes a mobile QB valuable. I’m positive Hurts can chew up rushing yards as a QB. I’m not as sure he can keep his eyes up long enough to use that ability to create chunk plays in the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greend Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 18 hours ago, Utebird said: If he had the opportunity he did as was his job. Pinkston gets a lot of flack on this board and has for years because if one non catch agai st washington where mcnabb threw him a hospital ball he made a business decision and then said he lost it in the lights and eagles fans kill him for it and discount anything good he did Pinkston was a string bean and not the toughest WR around and yet he was a pretty good Z receiver who could stretch the field and keep defenses honest. The eagles won a super player with a similar ayer in a similar role in torrey smith I'm not going to crown Pinkston as anything other than what he was which was a marginal WR who could be a deep threat but the constant painting him as always soft and contact avoident and utter trash are misfounded tate rhetoric. Pinkston had some good moments as an eagle and helped them win some big games, I wish he would have had more big moments but it is what it is. All that said he avoided contact and that's what the discussion was about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said: I love Kelce. A favorite Eagle. Despite his prowess in athleticism, you could always count on 3-4 plays a game where he gets blow off the LOS and kills a play. Dickerson would solve that issue. He is also athletic enough for outside zone. Most teams consistently run it without a Kelce-type at center. Dickerson at center will look different, but not necessarily worse. Yup I remember when mudd first came in he had Jamal Jackson at center and Jamal was a bit older at that point but at 335lbs he could still run some of mudds zone stuff but mudd was enamored with kelces athleticism and Jamal got hurt Kelce went in and never looked back. So yeah I think the blocking scheme wouldn't change much just be a bit different as dickerson or even seumalo can't do the things that kelce can. And you are right dickerson at 335+ won't have the same issues kelce does of getting blown up occasionally by bigger DTs. He should be able to line up and blow the guy up directly in front of him in the run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLC Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 *This is Fine* meme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freshmilk Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 minute ago, RLC said: *This is Fine* meme I'd love to have Rodgers. He'd make Goedert and Smith stars and the DC's in the NFC East crap their beds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greend Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said: That's good leadership Aaron. Aaron is a dewsh, but since he's elite it allowed I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest justrelax Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 In all the plays reviewing Herbig did anyone see him fire out, even once? He was fine in double teams and he can shield off a player or maybe turn him but move him? Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, greend said: All that said he avoided contact and that's what the discussion was about No that's wasn't what the discussion was about, that's what phan tried to make the discussion about The discussion was about whether or not smith would get hurt/injured because he only weighed 166 lbs. I used Pinkston who never got Injured in his 5 years at 175 lbs due to co tact and Phan replied Pinkston always avoided contact, which is a silly statement seeing as I'm pretty sure Pinkston was tackled more than a couple times in 5 years no??? The discussion was about lighter WRs being more I jury prone due to them not being bigger heavier, I asked for phan or any one to show me a chart, study, flow chart, that shows that WRs who are lighter than the average suffer more Injuries during contact,(still waiting) meaning not just running un impeded and blowing an ACL or in Pinkstons case an achilles. That's the discussion, whether Pinkston was a puss with alligator arms who didn't like contact is beside the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLC Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, justrelax said: In all the plays reviewing Herbig did anyone see him fire out, even once? He was fine in double teams and he can shield off a player or maybe turn him but move him? Never. It's weird. There's no drive in his game, but he's not getting bull-rushed either. He's just...there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greend Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Utebird said: No that's wasn't what the discussion was about, that's what phan tried to make the discussion about The discussion was about whether or not smith would get hurt/injured because he only weighed 166 lbs. I used Pinkston who never got Injured in his 5 years at 175 lbs due to co tact and Phan replied Pinkston always avoided contact, which is a silly statement seeing as I'm pretty sure Pinkston was tackled more than a couple times in 5 years no??? The discussion was about lighter WRs being more I jury prone due to them not being bigger heavier, I asked for phan or any one to show me a chart, study, flow chart, that shows that WRs who are lighter than the average suffer more Injuries during contact,(still waiting) meaning not just running un impeded and blowing an ACL or in Pinkstons case an achilles. That's the discussion, whether Pinkston was a puss with alligator arms who didn't like contact is beside the point. That said being a puss and shying away from contact would absolutely help keep you from getting injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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