EMB Blog: 2021 Offseason

[ToastJenkins]

11 hours ago, ManuManu said:

You must have skipped a lot of posts over the years. 

Mostly a certain subset of posters

[ToastJenkins]

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Work ethic and being driven is something a lot of those guys have.  It’s not unique to Jalen Hurts.  I just know he’s comfortable in his own skin.  Which is something that is hard to be when you’re a young player in front of the press in Philly.  

We will see how he holds up when the mob realizes he is not good

[Iggles_Phan]

6 hours ago, austinfan said:

Potential isn't production.

Pryor had a solid rookie season, regressed his second year.  While he lacks athleticism, he has the requisite length for OT.

Opeta has great leg explosion and straight line speed, he needs to work on his agility and footwork.

Toth comes out of Army, where OL are traditionally undersized due to military requirements (Air Force is the worst).

No one projected Villaneuva, an undersized 3-4 DE out of Army to be a pro bowl LT, he didn't even get to play on a regular basis until he was 27.

Correct potential isn't production.  And lack of production isn't potential.   

 

 

5 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

What? Pryor didn’t play at all his rookie year. He was inactive every game, and played only 79 offensive snaps his second year and was awful last year. He’s bad.

Shhhh.... don't let the facts get in the way of afan's feelings.

[jsb235]

1 hour ago, greend said:

The only guy covered there is the one he's looking at. Throw the ball to the out and do it before he makes his break. Pretty simple. All that said he was a rookie if he remains the starter this year I hope he improves on things such as this.

You are in the qb room and know the order of the progressions on the play? Wow, that is some amazing access you have. So not only do you think that Hurts made a mistake in not throwing to the receiver who was covered by the safety, you think that his mistake was that he couldn't even understand that his first read should have been to the other side of the field.

You are essentially saying that his progressions weren't Jeffery to Ward to Hightower to Ertz, but that Hightower was supposed to be his first read on that play.

That's an interesting theory. Apparently, in your mind, he has such a poor grasp of the playbook that he doesn't even know where his first read should be. 

  

 

[Iggles_Phan]

1 hour ago, greend said:

And sometimes we as fans are right. Not to mention they are making plenty of money off of us being so emotional.

Yup.   Without the emotions, the paychecks go way way way way down, and these poor beleaguered athletes, coaches, etc. would have to either give up the sport and take a regular 9-5 job... or they'd have to get a part time offseason gig to cover the rest of their expenses. 

 

Chuck "Concrete Charlie" Bednarik didn't earn that nickname because of what he did on the field, he got that nickname for what he did off the field.

[ManuManu]

34 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Work ethic and being driven is something a lot of those guys have.  It’s not unique to Jalen Hurts.  I just know he’s comfortable in his own skin.  Which is something that is hard to be when you’re a young player in front of the press in Philly.  

No it’s not unique. But those with great work ethic, habits, drive etc get the most out of their abilities. Not every NFL player has that. 

[austinfan]

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Correct potential isn't production.  And lack of production isn't potential.  

Shhhh.... don't let the facts get in the way of afan's feelings.

Ok, second season. I'm an old man, I'm allowed my senior moments. 😁

Point is Pryor looked like he was progressing, then regressed. It happens.

There's a reason players are late round picks/UDFAs, sometimes lack of talent, often a flaw that limits them as NFL players, sometimes it can be fixed, sometimes it can't.

One reason to focus on work ethic as a "make or break" quality, especially after the first couple days, is players with high work ethics are more likely to address their flaws.

[greend]

12 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

You are in the qb room and know the order of the progressions on the play? Wow, that is some amazing access you have. So not only do you think that Hurts made a mistake in not throwing to the receiver who was covered by the safety, you think that his mistake was that he couldn't even understand that his first read should have been to the other side of the field.

You are essentially saying that his progressions weren't Jeffery to Ward to Hightower to Ertz, but that Hightower was supposed to be his first read on that play.

That's an interesting theory. Apparently, in your mind, he has such a poor grasp of the playbook that he doesn't even know where his first read should be. 

  

 

He wasn't covered but thamks for playing

[jsb235]

2 minutes ago, greend said:

He wasn't covered but thamks for playing

Obviously he wasn't. You should always throw to a guy who has a safety running at him at full speed because nothing bad ever happens in that scenario.

[Guest justrelax]

10 hours ago, schuy7 said:

I'm glad we agree that Carson's mechanics are sloppy.

Did you mean to send this from your burner account?

I also find it funny that you say you limit yourself, even though you pretend to be an OL expert. Yawn.

Never claimed to be an expert. OL interests me more than most. And I did say "limited success" did I not.

[Iggles_Phan]

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Ok, second season. I'm an old man, I'm allowed my senior moments. 😁

Point is Pryor looked like he was progressing, then regressed. It happens.

There's a reason players are late round picks/UDFAs, sometimes lack of talent, often a flaw that limits them as NFL players, sometimes it can be fixed, sometimes it can't.

One reason to focus on work ethic as a "make or break" quality, especially after the first couple days, is players with high work ethics are more likely to address their flaws.

Pryor looked like he was progressing for how many games?  1 game?  a half of a game?   He played in about 120 snaps in 2019.  He was at best, marginal.  He got a LONG look in 2020... and he looked completely lost, outmatched, out of shape, out of sorts and just plain terrible.   The only real positive to be said about Matt Pryor was that he was better than Jamon Brown.  High praise.   And that was his 3rd year.  Generally, when players in their 3rd year are given extensive playing time, you'd hope that he'd come along as the snaps started to pile up.   That he'd start to show some of that promise.  All he showed was that his lack of athleticism really was a problem.   He's currently not even at 'JAG' level.  Herbig is a JAG.   Pryor is far worse than that.

 

And yes, there is a reason players are late round picks and UDFAs.   But, you seem to love to elevate those players, like we just discussed... Pryor, Opeta, Herbig, Toth...  those guys have a very very steep mountain to climb.   And no, they don't have the potential to be starters.  They have the potential to be depth.  Looking at them as anything more than that is just overvaluing your own players to the detriment of the team.

[RememberTheKoy]

The clowns in this thread still trying to dissect a play from a game where he was getting his first ever NFL action actually being allowed to throw the football, in a game where it wasn't planned at all for him to take over at QB. And they are doing it seriously as if it holds any meaning whatsoever. 

[greend]

6 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Obviously he wasn't. You should always throw to a guy who has a safety running at him at full speed because nothing bad ever happens in that scenario.

uh-huh

[greend]

53 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

We will see how he holds up when the mob realizes he is not good

Some of the mob will take a little longer than others. Hopefully our part of the mob is wrong though or by some miracle we make a trade.

[UK Eagle]

On Herbig, I thought it was 30 pounds that he lost over the offseason.  At least it wasn't put out with Spadaro's "and he's put x amount of muscle on too".

Hardly evidence, but he looks like doughy on the face here:

https://twitter.com/LaneJohnson65/status/1393391369570471939/photo/1

[austinfan]

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Pryor looked like he was progressing for how many games?  1 game?  a half of a game?   He played in about 120 snaps in 2019.  He was at best, marginal.  He got a LONG look in 2020... and he looked completely lost, outmatched, out of shape, out of sorts and just plain terrible.   The only real positive to be said about Matt Pryor was that he was better than Jamon Brown.  High praise.   And that was his 3rd year.  Generally, when players in their 3rd year are given extensive playing time, you'd hope that he'd come along as the snaps started to pile up.   That he'd start to show some of that promise.  All he showed was that his lack of athleticism really was a problem.   He's currently not even at 'JAG' level.  Herbig is a JAG.   Pryor is far worse than that.

And yes, there is a reason players are late round picks and UDFAs.   But, you seem to love to elevate those players, like we just discussed... Pryor, Opeta, Herbig, Toth...  those guys have a very very steep mountain to climb.   And no, they don't have the potential to be starters.  They have the potential to be depth.  Looking at them as anything more than that is just overvaluing your own players to the detriment of the team.

I can go to the roster of any playoff team and find you a half dozen guys taken late in the draft/UDFAs/SFAs who started or had major roles off the bench. But they don't have "potential to be starters," but manage to start anyway. When Mikell first showed up on an Eagles roster, who projected him as a starter? Kelce was grossly undersized. And so on.

The odds are longer against these guys, but they aren't zero. The fun of training camp is to see who surprises, and who fades away. People get excited by Grimes because he's big and ran fast in a straight line in shorts, I'm far more interested in Tyree Jackson.

Pryor is finished unless he went crazy in the offseason, and rebuilt his body and his technique, but you can't teach length.

Herbig showed he could pass block, but lacked any explosion or movement skills b/c he was too heavy, did getting into shape make a difference?

Opeta actually has NFL athleticism, and it showed in his brief cameo, doesn't mean he can play, but there's something to work with.

Toth was overmatched as a rookie out of Army, which runs a triple option offense (65 passes in 2018). In August 2019, he signed a three-year contract with the Eagles, even though he had already missed all of training camp and two preseason games. When he returned last season, obviously he had limited practice time before being forced into the lineup. So this August he'll finally get a real shot at making the team.

[Freshmilk]

20 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Did I say every NFL player had that?  No.  But enough of them do to make it not unique.   We don’t have to go overboard with Hurts for gods sake.  

Too late for that suggestion.  The Hurts stuff on here has been day after day of one mind trying to out-puke the next.

[EaglePhan1986]

If Urban ruins Trevor Lawrence he’ll exceed Lou Holtz, Nick Saban, and Spurrier. Maybe even Petrino 

[ManuManu]

36 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Did I say every NFL player had that?  No.  But enough of them do to make it not unique.   We don’t have to go overboard with Hurts for gods sake.  

I’m not. Settle down. 

[austinfan]

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

I’m not. Settle down. 

Yeah, don't see the big deal in pointing out that Hurts has off the chart intangibles. Whether that will make him a starting NFL QB remains to be seen, but it certainly gives him a chance.

Just as important, even if Hurts eventually gets beaten out in a year or two, I'd overpay to keep him as the backup QB. Hurts and Smith will set the tone for the team this year, and help establish a culture for a rebuilding team. And he's shown he's team first, didn't pout when he was benched at Alabama, just worked hard and kept himself ready. Embracing competition sets a tone for the team. The more this comes from the players, the less the HC has to push.

When your starting QB and Heisman winning high draft pick are the hardest workers on the team, the message to the rest of the players, especially younger players, is loud and clear.

Entitlement doesn't live here.

[EaglePhan1986]

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Yeah, don't see the big deal in pointing out that Hurts has off the chart intangibles. Whether that will make him a starting NFL QB remains to be seen, but it certainly gives him a chance.

Just as important, even if Hurts eventually gets beaten out in a year or two, I'd overpay to keep him as the backup QB. Hurts and Smith will set the tone for the team this year, and help establish a culture for a rebuilding team. And he's shown he's team first, didn't pout when he was benched at Alabama, just worked hard and kept himself ready. Embracing competition sets a tone for the team. The more this comes from the players, the less the HC has to push.

When your starting QB and Heisman winning high draft pick are the hardest workers on the team, the message to the rest of the players, especially younger players, is loud and clear.

Entitlement doesn't live here.

Too bad he has below the chart arm talent 

[Utebird]

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yup.   Without the emotions, the paychecks go way way way way down, and these poor beleaguered athletes, coaches, etc. would have to either give up the sport and take a regular 9-5 job... or they'd have to get a part time offseason gig to cover the rest of their expenses. 

 

Chuck "Concrete Charlie" Bednarik didn't earn that nickname because of what he did on the field, he got that nickname for what he did off the field.

Like " Chickie Pete Mahe"???

[Alphagrand]

1 minute ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Too bad he has below the chart arm talent 

I think both you and Afan reside on the edges of the rainbow, and the reality is somewhere towards the middle 

I’m not sure where this narrative of Hurts’ off-the-chart intangibles comes from — it has no basis in reality from what I’ve seen.  Does he work any harder than most NFL players at their craft?  I have my doubts.

In contrast, Hurts can succeed with the arm strength he’s got if he learns to put the tools he does have together.  Deshaun Watson was knocked for having subpar arm strength entering the league, but he’s managed to do perfectly fine.  Obviously, Watson had a superior collegiate career to Hurts (and to Lawrence, FWIW) but he’s able to balance the ‘dual threat’ much more towards throwing than running after the first read.

[Guest justrelax]

10 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Too bad he has below the chart arm talent 

Constantly saying this does not make it so.

[EaglePhan1986]

3 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I think both you and Afan reside on the edges of the rainbow, and the reality is somewhere towards the middle 

I’m not sure where this narrative of Hurts’ off-the-chart intangibles comes from — it has no basis in reality from what I’ve seen.  Does he work any harder than most NFL players at their craft?  I have my doubts.

In contrast, Hurts can succeed with the arm strength he’s got if he learns to put the tools he does have together.  Deshaun Watson was knocked for having subpar arm strength entering the league, but he’s managed to do perfectly fine.  Obviously, Watson had a superior collegiate career to Hurts (and to Lawrence, FWIW) but he’s able to balance the ‘dual threat’ much more towards throwing than running after the first read.

Arm talent and arm strength are two different things.