**Official Philadelphia 76ers Thread 2022/2023 Regular Season*

[Bwestbrook36]

15 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Jesus.  What would you trade them for?  Some 1st round picks that will amount to nothing or some DeMar DeRozan type guys that have a low ceiling?  They need to make these guys work.  They're freaks.  They just need to have someone light a fire under their arse.  

If these guys don't have their own fire then they just don't have it. Jordan, LeBron, Kobe all the greats didn't need coaches to teach them to have motivation. The coaches they played for may have harnessed their fire into winning ways but , they didn't put it there. Even if that was the case who is to say the next coach can do that? Embiid and Simmons simply are not going to be what everyone thinks or wants them to be. Not together anyways. 

[hputenis]

3 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

If these guys don't have their own fire then they just don't have it. Jordan, LeBron, Kobe all the greats didn't need coaches to teach them to have motivation. The coaches they played for may have harnessed their fire into winning ways but , they didn't put it there. Even if that was the case who is to say the next coach can do that? Embiid and Simmons simply are not going to be what everyone thinks or wants them to be. Not together anyways. 

What did Jordan and Lebron do in their first 3 seasons in the league?  Not to mention they're #1 and #2 all time.  I don't wanna hear about Kobe.  Shaq won those championships.  He was an absurdly dominant player that nobody could stop.   

I'm not comparing Simmons and Embiid to any of them.  But ridiculous talent wins if you give it time.  How do you know they don't have their own fire?  The generational gap between Lebron and Embiid is probably a bigger gap than me and my own father.  The one thing you can't replace is talent, but you can definitely replace a Brett Brown.  

[Bwestbrook36]

10 minutes ago, hputenis said:

What did Jordan and Lebron do in their first 3 seasons in the league?  Not to mention they're #1 and #2 all time.  I don't wanna hear about Kobe.  Shaq won those championships.  He was an absurdly dominant player that nobody could stop.   

I'm not comparing Simmons and Embiid to any of them.  But ridiculous talent wins if you give it time.  How do you know they don't have their own fire?  The generational gap between Lebron and Embiid is probably a bigger gap than me and my own father.  The one thing you can't replace is talent, but you can definitely replace a Brett Brown.  

LeBron and Jordan didn't win their first years but they still clearly put in the work to be the best players they could be. Shaq was a big part of those championships but even he admitted he was lazy and knew Kobe would work his arse off to make up for his laziness and Kobe won 2 more after. No one player wins anything on their own and never have. 

Talent is a great thing but neither Simmons or embiid care to maximize it on their own. 

[DaEagles4Life]

15 minutes ago, hputenis said:

What did Jordan and Lebron do in their first 3 seasons in the league?  Not to mention they're #1 and #2 all time.  I don't wanna hear about Kobe.  Shaq won those championships.  He was an absurdly dominant player that nobody could stop.   

I'm not comparing Simmons and Embiid to any of them.  But ridiculous talent wins if you give it time.  How do you know they don't have their own fire?  The generational gap between Lebron and Embiid is probably a bigger gap than me and my own father.  The one thing you can't replace is talent, but you can definitely replace a Brett Brown.  

James third year he single handily beat the Pistons and ends up losing to the Spurs. 

[hputenis]

15 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

James third year he single handily beat the Pistons and ends up losing to the Spurs. 

The second sentence in my post shows how great I think those guys are.  I'm not denying that.  But there aren't humans like that on the planet.  Not to mention Lebron had to leave to win some championships.  Embiid and Simmons are transcendent talents.  Their leash needs to be long, because we aren't finding their replacements.  They frustrate me to no end........but to think trading them right now is a good solution is absurd.  

[DaEagles4Life]

9 minutes ago, hputenis said:

The second sentence in my post shows how great I think those guys are.  I'm not denying that.  But there aren't humans like that on the planet.  Not to mention Lebron had to leave to win some championships.  Embiid and Simmons are transcendent talents.  Their leash needs to be long, because we aren't finding their replacements.  They frustrate me to no end........but to think trading them right now is a good solution is absurd.  

I mean he left because the talent around him was dog crap. Jordan has Pippen and Kobe had Shaq/Prime Gasol. Every great has a borderline HoF beside him. 

 

Look at the value the Thunder got for George. Just need to find a team willing to give up the farm for either player. 

[hputenis]

30 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

LeBron and Jordan didn't win their first years but they still clearly put in the work to be the best players they could be. Shaq was a big part of those championships but even he admitted he was lazy and knew Kobe would work his arse off to make up for his laziness and Kobe won 2 more after. No one player wins anything on their own and never have. 

Talent is a great thing but neither Simmons or embiid care to maximize it on their own. 

Different generation man.  The young guys need to be coddled.  I'm almost 40, and I wasn't one of these new age entitled arsewipes.  Jordan wasn't, Kobe wasn't, Shaq wasn't, and Lebron arguably could have been.  But he seems to be cut from a different cloth.   

I don't think Simmons and Embiid know any better.  My point to all this is that these guys need more attention and more coaching.  It's probably why Brett Brown kisses their arses all the time.  It's soooooo much different now.  

[hputenis]

1 minute ago, DaEagles4Life said:

I mean he left because the talent around him was dog crap. Jordan has Pippen and Kobe had Shaq/Prime Gasol. Every great has a borderline HoF beside him 

Does this help?  In my opinion Lebron is the 2nd best player of all time, and I think he still has the chance to surpass Jordan.  He's unbelievable.  

My argument was never with Lebron.  I just think we can't give up on guys that are freaks.  

[HazletonEagle]

1 minute ago, hputenis said:

Does this help?  In my opinion Lebron is the 2nd best player of all time, and I think he still has the chance to surpass Jordan.  He's unbelievable.  

My argument was never with Lebron.  I just think we can't give up on guys that are freaks.  

no. not still. nor did he ever. 

He can have longevity, compile stats and accolades and by those measures people will try to make the argument. 

But watching them both play, Jordan was still on another level. Accomplishments being comparable does does not necessarily mean the talent is quite the same. 

LeBron will always be #2 at best. 

[hputenis]

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

no. not still. nor did he ever. 

He can have longevity, compile stats and accolades and by those measures people will try to make the argument. 

But watching them both play, Jordan was still on another level. Accomplishments being comparable does does not necessarily mean the talent is quite the same. 

LeBron will always be #2 at best. 

😂😂  That makes a lot of sense.   

[Bwestbrook36]

4 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

I mean he left because the talent around him was dog crap. Jordan has Pippen and Kobe had Shaq/Prime Gasol. Every great has a borderline HoF beside him. 

 

Look at the value the Thunder got for George. Just need to find a team willing to give up the farm for either player. 

And when did Shaq get to the finals for the magic? After they got penny and he was on the rise. When did Shaq get to the finals when he was with the Lakers? When Kobe finally became a starter and helped take the pressure off of Shaq. When did Shaq win with the heat? After wade established himself. All 3 of those guards were frustrated with Shaq and his commitment to staying in shape. Right now embiid is showing he isn't committed to staying in shape and Simmons isn't a guard period. Shaq was dominant no question about it but he needed someone to help him through out his career that was willing to be the best and embiid doesn't have that with Simmons he just wants to be good at what he already is good at nothing more

[HazletonEagle]

5 minutes ago, hputenis said:

😂😂  That makes a lot of sense.   

he was never as good. not even for a second. 

[hputenis]

11 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

he was never as good. not even for a second. 

Wrong

I don't think he will be in the end, but he was better than Jordan in the beginning of his career.  Read the context instead of having a Michael Jordan boner. 

**Lebron's first few years in the league, he was a better basketball player than Jordan in his first few years.  

[HazletonEagle]

11 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Wrong

I don't think he will be in the end, but he was better than Jordan in the beginning of his career.  Read the context instead of having a Michael Jordan boner. 

**Lebron's first few years in the league, he was a better basketball player than Jordan in his first few years.  

Jordan every second of their lives. 

[rambo]

@HazletonEagle Here's something for you to analyze for the rest of the day.

[DaEagles4Life]

Embiid doesn't even respect the shot haha 

But it really does look like he put in some work these last few months. Shot looks improved minus the hitch in it 

[HazletonEagle]

2 hours ago, rambo said:

@HazletonEagle Here's something for you to analyze for the rest of the day.

The pass sucked. 

[hputenis]

3 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

The pass sucked. 

Ben looks like he's on a different planet athletically in those clips, and they aren't even showing him on defense.  But let's trade him anyway.  He makes us mad.  

[HazletonEagle]

18 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Ben looks like he's on a different planet athletically in those clips, and they aren't even showing him on defense.  But let's trade him anyway.  He makes us mad.  

Ive always thought he should be a 4. 

And hes always sucked as a PG. As long as they were obstinately believing he was going to be a great PG we would never go anywhere with him. 

Now that theyre realizing he is not a PG and learning his value at the 4, hes become a hell of a lot more useful.

That, along with Embiid's inability to stay in shape, and unwillingness to play in the post is why Id trade Embiid rather than Simmons at this point. 

 

Simmons lacks a love for basketball and has no internal motivation. He is selfish in his unwillingness to adapt his game. He makes things worse on offense for everyone by killing the spacing with his refusal to even attempt an occasional jump shot. Hes begun to prove some worth with his all world defensive ability, and with Brett finally figuring out to play him more in the front court. But for those other reasons, I wouldnt be mad if they traded him too.

[hputenis]

10 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Ive always thought he should be a 4. 

And hes always sucked as a PG. As long as they were obstinately believing he was going to be a great PG we would never go anywhere with him. 

Now that theyre realizing he is not a PG and learning his value at the 4, hes become a hell of a lot more useful.

That, along with Embiid's inability to stay in shape, and unwillingness to play in the post is why Id trade Embiid rather than Simmons at this point. 

 

Simmons lacks a love for basketball and has no internal motivation. He is selfish in his unwillingness to adapt his game. He makes things worse on offense for everyone by killing the spacing with his refusal to even attempt an occasional jump shot. Hes begun to prove some worth with his all world defensive ability, and with Brett finally figuring out to play him more in the front court. But for those other reasons, I wouldnt be mad if they traded him too.

Good stuff.  I like him at the 4, but I still want him snagging rebounds and flying up the floor and handling the ball.  I think that will still happen.  

I can't argue with you about Embiid staying in shape or Ben's love for basketball.  If there was a gun to my head, I would trade Embiid too (instead of Simmons).  But there's nothing better out there.  There won't be anything better out there for the next 3-5 years.  

[HazletonEagle]

1 hour ago, hputenis said:

Good stuff.  I like him at the 4, but I still want him snagging rebounds and flying up the floor and handling the ball.  I think that will still happen.  

I can't argue with you about Embiid staying in shape or Ben's love for basketball.  If there was a gun to my head, I would trade Embiid too (instead of Simmons).  But there's nothing better out there.  There won't be anything better out there for the next 3-5 years.  

When you look at the depth our team has lacked for the past 2 or 3 years after paying stars and waiting to add another 1-2 big stars on big contracts and tieing up that money/trading away other assets, I am fairly sure that a package deal could potentially make the team better. The sum of the parts (in the package) may be better than the whole (Embiid or possibly even Simmons).

 

[hputenis]

7 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

When you look at the depth our team has lacked for the past 2 or 3 years after paying stars and waiting to add another 1-2 big stars on big contracts and tieing up that money/trading away other assets, I am fairly sure that a package deal could potentially make the team better. The sum of the parts (in the package) may be better than the whole (Embiid or possibly even Simmons).

 

So do you think trading one of or both of our best 2 players would be the solution?  Signing Tobias to a max contract is a problem.  Signing Al Horford to his contract appears to be a huge problem.  

Are you proposing that we re-trust the process (and wait another 10 years for a playoff win) or we trade them for a blue chip player or 2?  There isn't a blue chip player.  They don't exist.  Lebron no coming.  Kawhi not coming.  Giannis not coming.  Everyone else......do not want.  I'm done with NBA purgatory.  

[HazletonEagle]

13 minutes ago, hputenis said:

So do you think trading one of or both of our best 2 players would be the solution?  Signing Tobias to a max contract is a problem.  Signing Al Horford to his contract appears to be a huge problem.  

Are you proposing that we re-trust the process (and wait another 10 years for a playoff win) or we trade them for a blue chip player or 2?  There isn't a blue chip player.  They don't exist.  Lebron no coming.  Kawhi not coming.  Giannis not coming.  Everyone else......do not want.  I'm done with NBA purgatory.  

The most important part of the solution is getting rid of Brett Brown. Because though Joel and Ben cant/wont work another coach probably coulda got more motivation out of them, AND designed a better offensive system. We dont really have an offense at all.

The next most important part of the solution is getting rid of Horford and his contract somehow but this almost cant happen. We would be incredibly lucky to find a taker. 

The next most important part is probably trading Embiid.

Questionable whether also trading Ben would also be good too. Depends on whether or not we have fully finally given up on trying to make him a PG. If hes a 4 from now on then Im 100% on board with keeping him. If hes still going to be playing PG at all, then Im 50/50 dont really care either way.

 

I dont necessarily think trading either or both Simmons/Embiid means re-trusting the process. Hopefully you can find the right deals with a star or semi-star player and a bunch of great assets. If you could get a McCollum and picks, Beal, Devin Booker and picks, Lavine and Markkanen, the team will still be damn good and have more 1st round picks, to add or trade for more talent.

When we processed we didnt have good players like Tobias Harris and Richardson on the roster. They were Jeremi Grant and KJ McDaniels or washed up Jason Richardson instead. 

 

Just for example, LaVine, Josh Richardson, Harris, Simmons, Markkanen in addition to some actual talent on the bench could be really good.

[mr_hunt]

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[DaEagles4Life]

15 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

The most important part of the solution is getting rid of Brett Brown. Because though Joel and Ben cant/wont work another coach probably coulda got more motivation out of them, AND designed a better offensive system. We dont really have an offense at all.

The next most important part of the solution is getting rid of Horford and his contract somehow but this almost cant happen. We would be incredibly lucky to find a taker. 

The next most important part is probably trading Embiid.

Questionable whether also trading Ben would also be good too. Depends on whether or not we have fully finally given up on trying to make him a PG. If hes a 4 from now on then Im 100% on board with keeping him. If hes still going to be playing PG at all, then Im 50/50 dont really care either way.

 

I dont necessarily think trading either or both Simmons/Embiid means re-trusting the process. Hopefully you can find the right deals with a star or semi-star player and a bunch of great assets. If you could get a McCollum and picks, Beal, Devin Booker and picks, Lavine and Markkanen, the team will still be damn good and have more 1st round picks, to add or trade for more talent.

When we processed we didnt have good players like Tobias Harris and Richardson on the roster. They were Jeremi Grant and KJ McDaniels or washed up Jason Richardson instead. 

 

Just for example, LaVine, Josh Richardson, Harris, Simmons, Markkanen in addition to some actual talent on the bench could be really good.

We need to stop with this whole PG vs PF discussion. Positions really don't matter anymore. Giannis, Lebron, Harden, a bit of Tatum, Heat don't have a "PG" starting because Nunn is a shooter. 

LaVine will never be a winner so that is a hard pass and does little to make his teammates better. 

Booker trade makes zero sense with Ayton still there.  

If I'm trading Joel I  start to copy the Bucks blueprint. Surround Ben with shooters and more shooters. 

 

To be honest this all could still work if Ben would just Fing shoot period end of story. Just shoot and you may suck for a year like Giannis did but this year he now has the respect of the D to guard him at the 3 point line.