Kelce, what a fricking beast

 

2 hours ago, PrinceKelby said:

Ok, yet you're pissing and moaning about "not having one impact player under 25" due to some random list someone made.

Now you admit there is probably one we have.

Did many teams on his list have multiple multiple players?

 

That's not even one for each team in the top 25 and there certainly are impact players under 25 on every team in the league.

 

Newsflash: Most top impact players in the league are not under the age of 25. There just aren't many guys pushing the "impact meter" much in their first contract.

I'm not saying they can't draft better, but it's certainly not as terrible as you'd like to make it out to be in your misguided search for your perfection.

 

Forgetting about age... I figured I'd look to find 'Impact' players drafted by the Eagles.... I'll go back 10 years.  Just because...

 

2020 - Too soon to judge.  There are some 'potential' impact players in this group.  Reagor is the obvious choice, as he offers what this team desperately lacked offensively last year, but there are others, notably, Wallace.  

2019 - Still very early, but they got instant impact from Sanders.  That can't be debated (well, anything can be, but debating this just shows intent).  Dillard is also absolutely, a potential impact player.  He's over 25... big whoop.  If Dillard becomes a top half LT in the NFL and can remain that for the next 8-10 years, that's impact.  

2018 - Goedert is the best option here.   He's not an 'impact' player by some people's definition, but he matched Ertz' production over the last 11 games of the season.  But, he's a darn good TE, and played about 75% of the snaps this past season.

2017 - Not a ton here, but Barnett did have an impact during the SB run.  Strip sack that basically cinched the NFC CG against the Vikings.  Was a 14-7 game at the time and Vikings were in the Red Zone.   Recovering the fumble in the SB was also quite impactful.  

2016 - Wentz - impact.  Vaitai - impact.  Seumalo - impact.  Mills - impact.  

2015 - Hicks - impact.

2014 - pretty much a barren landscape, but Beau Allen did provide impact.  

2013 - Johnson - impact, Ertz - impact, Logan - impact

2012 - Cox - impact, Kendricks - impact, Curry - impact, Foles - impact

2011 - Kelce - impact

2010 - Graham - impact

 

 

Not a great landscape, but not void.  The highlights were 2012, 2013, 2016.  2019 and 2020 actually could be quite impactful.  Dillard at LT, Sanders at RB, Reagor at WR, Wallace at S... and we can spark the debate about the potential impacts of Hurts, Taylor and some of the others.  Driscoll and Prince have potential along the OL.  Hightower and Watkins have some potential at WR, as well.

17 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Amen.

Worth commenting on how well Isaac executes here. Just beautiful. 

I don't know what the Eagles call this last blocking scheme. I've always called it the power.

It was a really great segment.   Learned that blocking angle and RB angle need to be the same.  Loved that.  How they double team, and talking about their eyes.  I will watch it again.

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Kelce, what a fricking beast

 

That is beautiful. 

54 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Love it.  Wish JR was doing the interview instead of Duffy.  Watch Sanders on that second version.  Checks the gaps and cuts into the one that is going to give him The most yardage. Smart football.  Also, note that the LT is Dillard then. Did as well as Peters did.  I really am looking forward to Stout with Driscoll.  Kid understands how to maximize what he has. Very smart.  I could see Stout turning him into a C.  

Technique and zone blocking skills are hard to beat.   Go watch some film on Odessa Permian from 1989.  They had 170-180 pound linemen but there zone blocking freed up their wing T RBs. 

I would love to see JP work with Tega and the other tackles on their punch.  He has the best punch I have ever seen from an OL. Quick first step, mirror, punch, mirror, punch. It’s a clinic.

I will also point out that the NFCE has a G on each team that is a top G in the NFL. 

Been saying that since the moment he was drafted.

17 hours ago, bpac55 said:

I'm not saying model the Eagles after them.  Every team decides where they want to invest heavy.  The Cowboys clearly think WR, RB, LB and QB are the places to go.  The Eagles on the other hand invest in O/D-line, QB, TE and old WR.  

Funny to mention Dak feasting on weak teams.  That's basically what the AR/DMac led teams did.  The NFC East was absolute trash i the 2000s.  

The Eagles have 1 win since their last Super Bowl.  I'm being a smarta$$ with that comment but what do playoff wins matter if you don't win the big one.  We can say oh look at AR's playoff record and the amount of times the Eagles went to the NFCCG, well all those wins and we have nothing to show for it.  

My whole point is Dak works for the Cowboys.  They have done a very good job of surrounding him with talent to let him perform at a high level.  He has his limitations yes.  He also has yet to miss a game due to injury.  The Cowboys aren't cap strapped and still will be able to sign Dak to whatever deal they agree on.  I'm guessing $40 million/year.

I think the question for Dak is whether he can ever play at a level that's good enough to win.  At some point spending the money on Dak prevents them from spending that money other places.  They had to let go of a very good CB because of his cost.  They may have replaced him with drafted talent but that's yet to be determined.  I think that is the question.  Ultimately, it's better for them to keep him than to let him go.  He may consistently be an above average QB.  He may be a top 10 QB.  I don't think he will ever win an MVP.  If you had to win a game, there are at least 10 other QBs you would pick before him.  Dak ultimately was a QB on a team that under achieved and lost winnable games last season.  I do agree that it would be a mistake to not re-sign him.  I don't think it's out of the question that they win a Super Bowl with him.   

The McNabb comparison is interesting.  McNabb had a much stronger arm but lacked Dak's accuracy.  McNabb was also a very mobile QB in his first 3 seasons.  McNabb never had the receiving talent that Dak has had.  He never really had a workhorse RB.  I would have loved to seen the early McNabb with a great WR corps.  

13 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

A 9.3 YPC is a bad defense for a WR, considering that’s even a little inflated due to a blown coverage against Dallas. 

The bottom line is Greg Ward shouldn’t be used as any kind evidence one support of our quality of youth. 

A WR with a YPC under 10 needs to have a catch rate of 80+% to have value. 
Most players with under 10 YPC and 80% catch rates are RBs for that reason.

The list of 2019 WRs with <10 YPC, >20catches & >60% catch rates: Allison, Fowler, Richardson, Sanu, Greg Ward!, Dede Westbrook, Albert Wilson, Zay Jones, Pharoh Cooper.
This is not a list you want to be on. 

57 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

No, you expect YOUR perfection to be everyone else's perfection, which is absolutely insane.

Please show me anywhere where I've posted how great everything is?

 

When you say you post to get a rise out of people, but can't take that rise that points out your ridiculousness, maybe you should take some time for some self reflection.

Please show me where I demand perfection?  I said Howie needs to do better and the lack of impact players is evidence to that.  

Strive for perfection, sure, but I understand picks will bust.  There is a lot of room in between perfection and Howie's drafts.  To say that "expecting better" than the current results is unreasonable or expecting perfection just shows how low everyone's expectations are around here.  

People are happy with a bunch of busts, a non-disruptive contain DE, and a RB with a bright future over years of drafting.  And to expect more is "unreasonable" "demanding" "ridiculous" etc.  Again, jeez, low bar.  I didn't know that mediocrity was so readily embraced by everyone here.  

12 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Please show me where I demand perfection?  I said Howie needs to do better and the lack of impact players is evidence to that.  

Strive for perfection, sure, but I understand picks will bust.  There is a lot of room in between perfection and Howie's drafts.  To say that "expecting better" than the current results is unreasonable or expecting perfection just shows how low everyone's expectations are around here.  

People are happy with a bunch of busts, a non-disruptive contain DE, and a RB with a bright future over years of drafting.  And to expect more is "unreasonable" "demanding" "ridiculous" etc.  Again, jeez, low bar.  I didn't know that mediocrity was so readily embraced by everyone here.  

Your expectations for Wentz is basically perfection, to be fair. 

13 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Please show me where I demand perfection?  I said Howie needs to do better and the lack of impact players is evidence to that.  

Strive for perfection, sure, but I understand picks will bust.  There is a lot of room in between perfection and Howie's drafts.  To say that "expecting better" than the current results is unreasonable or expecting perfection just shows how low everyone's expectations are around here.  

People are happy with a bunch of busts, a non-disruptive contain DE, and a RB with a bright future over years of drafting.  And to expect more is "unreasonable" "demanding" "ridiculous" etc.  Again, jeez, low bar.  I didn't know that mediocrity was so readily embraced by everyone here.  

And again a "lack of impact players" on a subjective list. A list of mostly teams that pick higher than us almost every year .

55 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

2019 Five players.  Miller couldn’t break the lineup last year. Needed to strengthen and develop more moves. Anyone expect a fourth almost fifth rounder to start?  Dillard, starting LT, Sanders, almost ROY level starting RB. I think we did okay in that draft. Who knows what 2020 holds in store for JJAW.  Substitute Thorson for T J Edwards and recall a year of Howard in the sixth and Hassan Ridgeway in the seventh and I would call 2019 above average.  BTW, I had draftable scores on Herbig and Opeta.  I wonder if they have helped Herbig with his eating habits and workouts.  I called him a slug but that’s not completely accurate. More like a dancing bear.  Anyway, we also got a year of Herbig as the active back up C.  

You're right that I didn't think of the UDFA additions.  I agree that to a large extent 2020 is an unknown.  Sanders is clearly a very good player.  If Dillard turn into a good starter then he makes that draft class.  I think we should know fairly quickly what type of player he is going to be.  I didn't think of substituting Thorson for Edwards.  Of course, one way to look at it is that there is no causal connection between the 2.  The could have had Gardner Minshew or Darius Slayton and TJ Edwards.  

1 hour ago, BigEFly said:

Love it.  Wish JR was doing the interview instead of Duffy.  Watch Sanders on that second version.  Checks the gaps and cuts into the one that is going to give him The most yardage. Smart football.  Also, note that the LT is Dillard then. Did as well as Peters did.  I really am looking forward to Stout with Driscoll.  Kid understands how to maximize what he has. Very smart.  I could see Stout turning him into a C.  

Technique and zone blocking skills are hard to beat.   Go watch some film on Odessa Permian from 1989.  They had 170-180 pound linemen but there zone blocking freed up their wing T RBs. 

I would love to see JP work with Tega and the other tackles on their punch.  He has the best punch I have ever seen from an OL. Quick first step, mirror, punch, mirror, punch. It’s a clinic.

I will also point out that the NFCE has a G on each team that is a top G in the NFL. 

I'm a big fan of Fran Duffy. I doubt I could have done as well.

Something worth checking out in that segment is Seumalo's stance, which I have commented on before. He is much more square to the LOS than just about every OL in the league other than centers. He was a bit sluggish going to the direction away from his back foot (which varied because he played all the positions) and Stoutland modified his stance over time, in part perhaps because he played all over but also to make him quicker across the formation, in this case going to his right. The player he most reminded me of when he came into the league was Alan Faneca, the great LG on the Steelers, and now you can really see it. I know there are still many here who think little of him, call him the weak link, etc. but I think he's become a terrific player.

29 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Your expectations for Wentz is basically perfection, to be fair. 

Yes they are.

1 hour ago, BigEFly said:

Yet both he and Agholor had an average YPC of 9.3.  Agnolor was always a "yeah me” guy in his celebrations. Check out clips of Ward and Scott, especially Ward. Very much a yeah team attitude from both.  First in to congratulate others.  Thanking the OL. It was infectious.  Need some of that.  Chris,Long brought that to the D and so does BG.  It is why I’m critical of Jenkins as a leader. Wasn’t there with him. 

I remember Chris Long celebrating a strip sack while the ball was rolling on the ground in that Raiders game the Eagles needed to win to get home field advantage.  I'm not saying he's a bad leader but I didn't think he was any more selfless than Jenkins.  

I agree with you on Ward and Agholor. 

7 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I remember Chris Long celebrating a strip sack while the ball was rolling on the ground in that Raiders game the Eagles needed to win to get home field advantage.  I'm not saying he's a bad leader but I didn't think he was any more selfless than Jenkins.  

I agree with you on Ward and Agholor. 

Maybe I"m remembering wrong but I don't think he realized the ball was fumbled at first - IIRC he seem surprised when he realized players were scrambling for the ball. I need to find video.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

Please show me where I demand perfection?  I said Howie needs to do better and the lack of impact players is evidence to that.  

Strive for perfection, sure, but I understand picks will bust.  There is a lot of room in between perfection and Howie's drafts.  To say that "expecting better" than the current results is unreasonable or expecting perfection just shows how low everyone's expectations are around here.  

People are happy with a bunch of busts, a non-disruptive contain DE, and a RB with a bright future over years of drafting.  And to expect more is "unreasonable" "demanding" "ridiculous" etc.  Again, jeez, low bar.  I didn't know that mediocrity was so readily embraced by everyone here.  

You've said multiple time you expect perfection, or strive to it, but YOUR perfection isn't everyone else's so us absolutely insane.

You keep painting me in with this crowd you're hammering against, when I've been on record for awhile that I don't think we draft well and have mentioned that I think there may be a disconnect between Howie and the coaching staff.

I wasn't a fan of this draft either as this was the year to go with higher floor and lower ceiling guys due to so much uncertainty in the off-season and season the next 2 years.

We get that you don't like larger plodding WR yet they won a SB with one, sooo....

Maybe there are multiple ways to build a team and trying to find their reasoning, rather than hammering against going against ours, may seem like people are "happy" with it to you.

 

That doesn't mean that's the case or that your perfection is the only way to win and expecting others to meet your perfection while having no control over the situation is quite insane.

 

You do you though just quit painting everyone as in the same boat as we aren't at all.

39 minutes ago, justrelax said:

I'm a big fan of Fran Duffy. I doubt I could have done as well.

Something worth checking out in that segment is Seumalo's stance, which I have commented on before. He is much more square to the LOS than just about every OL in the league other than centers. He was a bit sluggish going to the direction away from his back foot (which varied because he played all the positions) and Stoutland modified his stance over time, in part perhaps because he played all over but also to make him quicker across the formation, in this case going to his right. The player he most reminded me of when he came into the league was Alan Faneca, the great LG on the Steelers, and now you can really see it. I know there are still many here who think little of him, call him the weak link, etc. but I think he's become a terrific player.

Well, being called the weak link on a OL that boasts one of the best LTs to ever play the game, the best C in Eagles' history (purely based on playing center, not all-around football, sorry Chuck), best OG in the NFL right now, and the best RT in the NFL isn't such a bad thing.   Seumalo is the only one to never make a Pro Bowl.  Dillard now joins that group.  Hopefully the left side of the OL this upcoming year at least approximates the dominance on the right side.   

I said that Dillard will be held to a ridiculous standard, because he's following Jason Peters who followed Tra Thomas.  Unless Dillard is perennially Pro Bowler, or darn close, there are some that will consider him a wasted pick.  Seumalo is in a similar place.  He struggled early in 2017 and was replaced.  And the sad reality about OL play is that great OL play is rarely highlighted in highlights, by the twitter 'experts', etc.  So, Seumalo's transformation from a liability to the OL at the very beginning of 2017 to the solid LG he has become over the past 2/3 of the season last year went unnoticed by many.  He struggled against Grady Jackson in Week 2, and that was the last time that most people really heard about him.  Therefore, he sucks.  But, he was far from the reason that the Eagles lost that game in Week 2.  The endorsement Kelce provided for Seumalo should be enough to shut up most folks... but it won't be.

22 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

Maybe I"m remembering wrong but I don't think he realized the ball was fumbled at first - IIRC he seem surprised when he realized players were scrambling for the ball. I need to find video.

Yup, he also publicly apologized about it

23 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

 

... larger plodding WR yet they won a SB with one, sooo....

 

They won a SB with one because Torrey Smith was healthy all year. Alshon will beat single coverage and zone routinely but he will struggle against Double. He was at his best when Brandon Marshall was on the other side. Teams had to respect Smith's ability to get deep. Howie tried to replicate that winning formula the past 2 years with Wallace and Jackson but both were hurt early and out for most of the season with no one else to fill that role. 

I love this draft - not because I think the players are going to be great - I hope they will but there is no way to know yet. I love it because it's bold - the Eagles needed to get younger and faster and they did - now just cross our fingers and hope these Kids can play grown up football.

Even the Hurts pick was bold - Howie and Doug had to know they were going to get slammed for it - and if it doesn't work out well they might just get run out of town for it - that alone makes it bold.

And then there are the UDFA they picked up - some of them like Adrian Killins are just fun to watch, I swear Killins looks a Jedi using force speed. QB hands him the ball or dumps it to him on a screen / flat and it's a bunch of cardboard cutouts on D.

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Forgetting about age... I figured I'd look to find 'Impact' players drafted by the Eagles.... I'll go back 10 years.  Just because...

 

2020 - Too soon to judge.  There are some 'potential' impact players in this group.  Reagor is the obvious choice, as he offers what this team desperately lacked offensively last year, but there are others, notably, Wallace.  

2019 - Still very early, but they got instant impact from Sanders.  That can't be debated (well, anything can be, but debating this just shows intent).  Dillard is also absolutely, a potential impact player.  He's over 25... big whoop.  If Dillard becomes a top half LT in the NFL and can remain that for the next 8-10 years, that's impact.  

2018 - Goedert is the best option here.   He's not an 'impact' player by some people's definition, but he matched Ertz' production over the last 11 games of the season.  But, he's a darn good TE, and played about 75% of the snaps this past season.

2017 - Not a ton here, but Barnett did have an impact during the SB run.  Strip sack that basically cinched the NFC CG against the Vikings.  Was a 14-7 game at the time and Vikings were in the Red Zone.   Recovering the fumble in the SB was also quite impactful.  

2016 - Wentz - impact.  Vaitai - impact.  Seumalo - impact.  Mills - impact.  

2015 - Hicks - impact.

2014 - pretty much a barren landscape, but Beau Allen did provide impact.  

2013 - Johnson - impact, Ertz - impact, Logan - impact

2012 - Cox - impact, Kendricks - impact, Curry - impact, Foles - impact

2011 - Kelce - impact

2010 - Graham - impact

 

 

Not a great landscape, but not void.  The highlights were 2012, 2013, 2016.  2019 and 2020 actually could be quite impactful.  Dillard at LT, Sanders at RB, Reagor at WR, Wallace at S... and we can spark the debate about the potential impacts of Hurts, Taylor and some of the others.  Driscoll and Prince have potential along the OL.  Hightower and Watkins have some potential at WR, as well.

I mean let's do the math on this "list".

Most players are 21 to 22 coming out, right?

So the last 3 drafts, so that part makes sense.

Now we come to the number 25. That isn't even the top 10 players in each draft on the list, as Franklin pointed out.

But someone is going to argue his position that we don't have anyone on that list, even though we've realistically had little shot at any of those type of players? And yet say they really like Sanders.

It has all the logic of a spoiled kid who is not getting his way and refusing to acknowledge their expectations are more fantasy aspirations than anything realistic.

Truly amazing world we live in nowadays.

 

33 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

Maybe I"m remembering wrong but I don't think he realized the ball was fumbled at first - IIRC he seem surprised when he realized players were scrambling for the ball. I need to find video.

No, he clearly didn't see the fumble but my point would be he was more interested in celebrating the sack than playing to the whistle.  

15 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

They won a SB with one because Torrey Smith was healthy all year. Alshon will beat single coverage and zone routinely but he will struggle against Double. He was at his best when Brandon Marshall was on the other side. Teams had to respect Smith's ability to get deep. Howie tried to replicate that winning formula the past 2 years with Wallace and Jackson but both were hurt early and out for most of the season with no one else to fill that role. 

I love this draft - not because I think the players are going to be great - I hope they will but there is no way to know yet. I love it because it's bold - the Eagles needed to get younger and faster and they did - now just cross our fingers and hope these Kids can play grown up football.

Even the Hurts pick was bold - Howie and Doug had to know they were going to get slammed for it - and if it doesn't work out well they might just get run out of town for it - that alone makes it bold.

And then there are the UDFA they picked up - some of them like Adrian Killins are just fun to watch, I swear Killins looks a Jedi using force speed. QB hands him the ball or dumps it to him on a screen / flat and it's a bunch of cardboard cutouts on D.

I liked them adding picks and what they did at WR.

Loved the Wallace pick.

They didn't think they'd get roasted for the Hurts pick. It was obvious by their reaction and having Howie go on every show imaginable on the defense about it. 

Hate that pick the most with all the uncertainty over the next 2 years.

The Taylor pick is a classic STs guy for 2 years and then starter, hopefully. 

Are we even going to know what we have with any of these guys with little off season or season for 2 years?  

Usually year 3 is when you're deciding if you're going to extend a guy.

If you really have had them be able to do much you're in quite a pickle.

Hence why of all the years this should have been a more classic Howie "draft guts with high floor but lower ceilings" kind of draft.

I think Reagor and Hightower will be good to great here so excited for them and Wentz to have some guys to grow with. Watkins and Goodwin are nice lotto tickets to try too.

Didn't mind the OL selections. Driscoll seems like the new Herremans jack of all trades kind of guy and Prince will be IR stash lotto ticket, that usually doesn't work for us, but at least we did it later this time.

13 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

They won a SB with one because Torrey Smith was healthy all year. Alshon will beat single coverage and zone routinely but he will struggle against Double. He was at his best when Brandon Marshall was on the other side. Teams had to respect Smith's ability to get deep. Howie tried to replicate that winning formula the past 2 years with Wallace and Jackson but both were hurt early and out for most of the season with no one else to fill that role. 

 

This 100%

Its kinda funny this year that they signed every sub 4.4 40 guy possible.  They should just change their names to the Philadelphia Raiders

If Wallace and Jackson stayed healthy like Smith did the last two years would've been much different

Flacco to the Jets.
I'm so happy we didn't get him.