11 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Btw.. I laughed at Dallas because they used the tag on a guy I knew they were going to give the money to anyway.  The tag is the dumbest move, it has the entire cap hit.  Each year the price goes up.  Dallas should have given the big contract after year 3.   Paying Dak is not wrong, waiting cost them.

Eagles messed up...  not by giving the $ when they did, but paying $  and having Travis Fulgham be the best WR.    If we pay a guy, I want people around him to see if he can win.  Like 2017 squad.   Right now, I want Hurts to have all the weapons and opportunities to be the guy.  I'm not paying a guy to be a " savior" ...I'm paying him to take the good team that I built around him to a title. 

15th best QB to me is a franchise QB... franchise doesn't mean elite... it means permanent career starter for me.  A guy you can win with.   Like I said, the "discount rate"  for Hurts if he is legit 15th best would be high 30s, low 40s ( millions per year avg)   I'm not obsessed with the 50mil # like you seem to be.    I don't foresee Hurts being good enough to be legit 15th best and get that.    You seem to think he is going to be that and cost $10 mil per year or something?   " just tag him" absolutely the worst idea.  By that time the tag will be in the 40mil range.  Plus it all counts toward the cap.

Paying the money for Wentz when they did was clearly a huge mistake. That’s fact at this point. We shipped him out and ate it. Now the Colts even have buyers remorse. Bad deal….plain and simple.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Paying the money for Wentz when they did was clearly a huge mistake. That’s fact at this point. We shipped him out and ate it. Now the Colts even have buyers remorse. Bad deal….plain and simple.

They would have had to pay more if they waited until after 2019.   

That's the reality.   This wait and see fantasy of yours... that's what Cousins and Dak ended up.  If you look at the numbers and break it down for cap hits, Wentz was similar to Foles....in total.  

You make the lesser mistake early and get out of it earlier with less cap hit.    That's better business. 

You either have the guy or not.... going forward... it's irrelevant if Hurts gets $40 or 50 mil per year if he isn't the guy.    What matters is if he is the guy or not. 

The Eagles aren't getting the guy without paying him.   So most likely scenario, barring a miracle from Hurts, we are getting a new QB in a year or two.

My point... the honeymoon is closer to being over for Hurts than you think.   It's pay him or move on soon enough.  

Your excuses for him work for a dirt cheap young QB.  He will be neither of those soon enough. That's reality.   And in this town.. as he gets more than Joel Embiid and Bryce Harper... if you think the fans were tough on him now...just wait.

5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

They would have had to pay more if they waited until after 2019.   

That's the reality.   This wait and see fantasy of yours... that's what Cousins and Dak ended up.  If you look at the numbers and break it down for cap hits, Wentz was similar to Foles....in total.  

You make the lesser mistake early and get out of it earlier with less cap hit.    That's better business. 

You either have the guy or not.... going forward... it's irrelevant if Hurts gets $40 or 50 mil per year if he isn't the guy.    What matters is if he is the guy or not. 

The Eagles aren't getting the guy without paying him.   So most likely scenario, barring a miracle from Hurts, we are getting a new QB in a year or two.

Obviously I don’t see things the same as you.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Obviously I don’t see things the same as you.

Dak's cap hit....would have been $37.7 mil.... for 2021.  But you see it as $33 mil in 2024?

Correct, we don't see things the same in this case.

Just now, joemas6 said:

Dak's cap hit....would have been $37.7 mil.... for 2021.  But you see it as $33 mil in 2024?

Correct, we don't see things the same in this case.

Qb franchise tag cost....I'm looking at here

Just now, joemas6 said:

Dak's cap hit....would have been $37.7 mil.... for 2021.  But you see it as $33 mil in 2024?

Correct, we don't see things the same in this case.

I thought the tag was 29 mil right now for a QB Is what I read. So 33 mil seems fairly close

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Obviously I don’t see things the same as you.

My question then.   Is it a big deal for you if Hurts avoids the big money at $50 mil.... and settles for $40 mil.   

5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

My point... the honeymoon is closer to being over for Hurts than you think.   It's pay him or move on soon enough.  

Your excuses for him work for a dirt cheap young QB.  He will be neither of those soon enough. That's reality.   And in this town.. as he gets more than Joel Embiid and Bryce Harper... if you think the fans were tough on him now...just wait.

I don’t think Hurts has had any honeymoon yet. Been dealing with Wentz this whole time. Now….in 2022….he gets a fair shot.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I thought the tag was 29 mil right now for a QB Is what I read. So 33 mil seems fairly close

How did it drop? 

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I don’t think Hurts has had any honeymoon yet. Been dealing with Wentz this whole time. Now….in 2022….he gets a fair shot.

The honeymoon is when fans look past the brutal shortcomings.  The excuses for failing.  That isn't going to last here.... when a new contract looms.

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

My question then.   Is it a big deal for you if Hurts avoids the big money at $50 mil.... and settles for $40 mil.   

That’s no question. We have to see what the kid has. Then I could judge what I think he’s worth. Not worth 40 mil right now.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

That’s no question. We have to see what the kid has. Then I could judge what I think he’s worth. Not worth 40 mil right now.

But you see him as the 15th best QB already.  Plus improving.    That's currently $25 mil for 15th highest average QB salary....with those #s coming from guys already years into their deal.  

Project that to 2024... if it was now... the 15th guy would be around there as he gets the latest contract.   

But pardon me if it's only $38 per year... lol

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/nfl-franchise-tag-meaning-deadlines-values-rules/1o185fk9ywga31hax6m1ahgn3q

Says here 24 mil for 2021 for QB tag. 

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

The honeymoon is when fans look past the brutal shortcomings.  The excuses for failing.  That isn't going to last here.... when a new contract looms.

I’m sure a new contract will reflect everything he brings to the table. Could be signing him at 24 years old.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/nfl-franchise-tag-meaning-deadlines-values-rules/1o185fk9ywga31hax6m1ahgn3q

You know missed... Dak was $37.7 because of the 2nd tag...  which takes the $20 increase. 

That increase would be Hurts in 2025.  But $33 million is a very low estimate based on the way the cap is.  That 2021 # reflected the COVID situation bringing the entire cap down.  That goes away in 2022...the big increases then have 2 more years.   You only seeing a 10% increase from 2021 to 2024?      That extremely low IMO.

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

But you see him as the 15th best QB already.  Plus improving.    That's currently $25 mil for 15th highest average QB salary....with those #s coming from guys already years into their deal.  

Project that to 2024... if it was now... the 15th guy would be around there as he gets the latest contract.   

But pardon me if it's only $38 per year... lol

Dropping from 50 to 38…..think you’re getting warmer

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’m sure a new contract will reflect everything he brings to the table. Could be signing him at 24 years old.

Yep... for $40 mil plus per.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Dropping from 50 to 38…..think you’re getting warmer

What is your # on Planet Ham for 15th best QB getting a fresh new deal in 2024?

Tag is projected at 29 mil. That’s what I’m seeing. Not making these numbers up. 2022 projected at 29 mil.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Tag is projected at 29 mil. That’s what I’m seeing. Not making these numbers up. 2022 projected at 29 mil.

What is your source?  And again... you don't see the jump being huge into 2024?

4 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Tag is projected at 29 mil. That’s what I’m seeing. Not making these numbers up. 2022 projected at 29 mil.

But again.... let's assume you are correct in everything. I want to know what you think Hurts will get as the 15th best QB, heading into free agency in 2024?   

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

What is your source?  And again... you don't see the jump being huge into 2024?

Who knows the way inflation is going in this country right now. Three years ago or so I was trying to convince you how quickly we were heading to a 50 mil per contract. Of coarse everything I go to buy costs me 25 percent more than it did two years ago. So gotta predict full world affairs here at this point it’s seeming. As soon as Russia invades Ukraine gas will probably jump up a dollar a gallon.

You aren’t going to pay him more in a long term deal than the franchise tag per year. The tag is full cap charge…..but still that isn’t going to happen. Even backload Rosie wouldn’t do that one.

You’d just pay the tag

So I’m not agreeing with your numbers here

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Who knows the way inflation is going in this country right now. Three years ago or so I was trying to convince you how quickly we were heading to a 50 mil per contract. Of coarse everything I go to buy costs me 25 percent more than it did two years ago. So gotta predict full world affairs here at this point it’s seeming. As soon as Russia invades Ukraine gas will probably jump up a dollar a gallon.

????    Lol... I was saying they were heading to $50 mil per year.    You were complaining about Wentz deal when the cap hits were $20 mil area... and I said 50 was coming before 2025.  

The inflation price of the world is irrelevant.  The NFL has its own rules. 

The franchise tag has 5 year formulas invloved... one is the total team cap #.  With 17 games added in ....2 years from now... that's a huge jump.

But irrelevant.   You are ok tagging Hurts at $33 mil ( let's say you are correct with tag #s) ...that would be 2024.  Then it jumps 20% to about $40 mil in 2025....EVERY $ counts vs the cap in that scenario.   

You think that is an option for the team, to avoid what?   I don't see our front office doing that at all.  They will look to jump on a long term deal if they think he is the guy.  Otherwise they will look for a new guy after this year.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

You’d just pay the tag

So I’m not agreeing with your numbers here

You going to get cap hits of $ 33 mil and $40 mil for Hurts in 2024 and 2025.  You see that tag as a real possibility?    I don't.