5 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

We tagged Mike Vick

While tagged we then signed him to a long term contract.

Did Vick play in the tag?

5 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

They tagged him and signed him to a huge contract long term

Tag can be useful to buy extra time to work out a long term deal.

A couple months?   Before the season starts?

So the work stoppage of 2011... the Eagles tagged Vick to prevent him from going into free agency.    

Now if you recall at the time, 2011 was Dream Team season... because 2010 being an uncapped year,  the Eagles dumped all their contracts to clear cap space for 2011 and future years..  they had an easy decision to tag Vick as they were way under the cap, way more than any other team.  

But no Eagles QB ever played on the tag.    To say or think that the Eagles will do that with the idea of then signing the QB the following year after playing on the tag....as compared to the HUGE cap savings of getting the deal done early...that's just dumb.

Dallas just tagged Dak, then he got hurt,  they paid him anyway,  and their cap is F#$ked big time.  Getting rid of players, not being able to sign free agents.    Meanwhile, the worst case scenario and result of the Eagles signing Wentz actually happened.  And the Eagles recouped big time draft capital and were able to resign guys to a ton of money on one year deals while being able to sign Reddick and White in free agency and trade and pay Brown.

It's pretty simple to see the difference... being wrong early with the wrong QB... vs waiting for the right QB ( if that's what you think Dak is) it's just better to take the shot early.  

Not even close.

6 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

We got off much better with Wentz than the future deals will look. Guaranteed money has jumped massively….not just the average yearly salary.

As they would with signing Hurts early...that's why they aren't going to wait.   Waiting and having him start or compete for starter is plan C.   It's a sign that they don't want him long term.

5 hours ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

You had to go back over a decade to find a QB that was slated to be the backup on his final year . To find a QB that was tagged and was resigned to a huge deal in the same span and only had 1 season as the starter for the FO to make that decision.

Yet you think the Eagles are going to take 3 full years of Hurts to make that call???? 

But also there was the work stoppage and new CBA being negotiated... that's why Vick was tagged, all the unknowns, there was no way they would come to a long term agreement before the next CBA was done. 

This is context that Ham misses with this idea that the Eagles " used a tag" it was only done due to the circumstances.  Maybe they will use it again if there is a work stoppage and new CBA being negotiated...otherwise I don't see it.

6 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I hear your opinion. Disagree. Think they will evaluate and use all options available. 

Option 1... Hurts plays well enough to be considered long term starter, he gets a new deal

Option 2... he doesn't do that....   which leads to 3 possible outcomes.

A = they draft a QB next year

B = they get a veteran QB via trade or free agency. 

C = they keep Hurts to be the starter for one more year. 

I see option C in a case where the other 2 are just too expensive or impossible to happen.   Or with the idea of using next year to also see if Strong can be the guy.   

I agree 100% with BG, that Hurts gets the long term deal if they believe he is the long term starter.  I don't care about of its 35 mil or 50 mil...either way it's the idea they do a deal early to lock him in..and he becomes the highest paid player on the team by far.

Where I disagree with BG, is that I think there is a decent possibility that they view it as too expensive to either get a veteran or draft a QB.   The Saints pick might not be that great and the teams in front my also want the QBs.   Hurts staying on the cheap along with Strong might just be the responsible move.   

But absolutely as the placeholder, no way would I see it as another year to try out and then get paid another 10 mil per year with less ways to lessen the cap hit.   That Dallas model will never happen here.

I’m not disagreeing with the thought being it’s ideal for a guy to prove he’s a top notch Franchise QB and earns that top salary long term contract. Even those guys are the most difficult deals to hash out. I’m sure there was a ton of work getting Mahomes deal in place and agreed upon. That’s with a no brainer player. That was hard. Rosie mentioned Wentz was his most difficult contract to date. 

So if Hurts is in contention for MVP this season…it’s the easy version of hashing out the most difficult contract. Short of him proving to be the top player in the league(the more likely scenario) then imagine even if Rosie wants to sign Hurts long term how difficult would that be? Would take a heck of a move by Hurts to just do a deal for the team on the cheap. The yearly average. The bonus structure. The team option to get out if the contract. How much of it is guaranteed. Rosie can bend numbers all over the place. I can’t really see how both sides work that out though. 

I just don’t see the situation being any different than every player in the league though. You have all these known options. No way he gets signed before the next draft anyway. They will thoroughly go through every option. If Hurts can be upgraded they will. Just a matter of measuring the cost. If they can find a way to get one of the top two guys without giving up everything….they would love to do that. Think it will end up taking a massive haul to get there though. So it becomes is there a vet option to upgrade that won’t cost everything. Obviously the vet has to be an upgrade to make sense. Think after one season that bar is already fairly high. Think there are only seven options for that. I’m not including Brady and ARod for age reasons. Only get a one year window with those moves. Murray is a possibility. I think Hurts is a better option though. Many probably disagree with me there. Carr? Them getting Adams really makes him getting trade hard to believe. Packers offered more but he said he had a longer career future with Carr. Had to be a big falling out with an elite guy. So going to take something special for that guy to become available. Then you actually have to outbid everybody else and get that guy to choose Philly. So after all these long winded explanations I’m still seeing Hurts as the best option….like he has been since drafted. Fans can complain about Hurts all they want. Haven’t heard a single better option idea. So he’s our guy!

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I just don’t see the situation being any different than every player in the league though. You have all these known options. No way he gets signed before the next draft anyway. They will thoroughly go through every option. If Hurts can be upgraded they will. Just a matter of measuring the cost. If they can find a way to get one of the top two guys without giving up everything….they would love to do that. Think it will end up taking a massive haul to get there though. So it becomes is there a vet option to upgrade that won’t cost everything. Obviously the vet has to be an upgrade to make sense. Think after one season that bar is already fairly high. Think there are only seven options for that. I’m not including Brady and ARod for age reasons. Only get a one year window with those moves. Murray is a possibility. I think Hurts is a better option though. Many probably disagree with me there. Carr? Them getting Adams really makes him getting trade hard to believe. Packers offered more but he said he had a longer career future with Carr. Had to be a big falling out with an elite guy. So going to take something special for that guy to become available. Then you actually have to outbid everybody else and get that guy to choose Philly. So after all these long winded explanations I’m still seeing Hurts as the best option….like he has been since drafted. Fans can complain about Hurts all they want. Haven’t heard a single better option idea. So he’s our guy!

So on one hand you say Hurts has to be in the MVP conversation....yet when you mention these veterans that are " possibilities " you like Hurts better.     

So why can't you see that Hurts doesn't have to be in the MVP conversation,  just needs to show he can be a good starter.   These other guys are getting paid to be starters, not MVPs.  QB salaries are sky high now, starting QBs without needing to be MVP caliber.    

The Wentz contact was different because you had a 5th year option on a guy drafted 2nd...  Hurts is making peanuts and no 5th year option, it's for security purposes that he would want to lock up his first big contract early...for that reason the Eagles will want to pounce.   

It's all semantics with what you are saying here... the Eagles will lock him up long term before he plays a down next year...that's the point.  Doesn't matter if February or August ( before or after draft). It's the idea of not waiting until he plays out the rookie deal.... wasting an expensive tag,and then paying him way more than if they just lock him in early.

Simply prove you are a starting QB, an average one, and he'll get the deal.   Doesn't have to be the top deal..  middle of the road will still be 35-40 mil.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

So on one hand you say Hurts has to be in the MVP conversation....yet when you mention these veterans that are " possibilities " you like Hurts better.     

So why can't you see that Hurts doesn't have to be in the MVP conversation,  just needs to show he can be a good starter.   These other guys are getting paid to be starters, not MVPs.  QB salaries are sky high now, starting QBs without needing to be MVP caliber.    

The Wentz contact was different because you had a 5th year option on a guy drafted 2nd...  Hurts is making peanuts and no 5th year option, it's for security purposes that he would want to lock up his first big contract early...for that reason the Eagles will want to pounce.   

It's all semantics with what you are saying here... the Eagles will lock him up long term before he plays a down next year...that's the point.  Doesn't matter if February or August ( before or after draft). It's the idea of not waiting until he plays out the rookie deal.... wasting an expensive tag,and then paying him way more than if they just lock him in early.

Simply prove you are a starting QB, an average one, and he'll get the deal.   Doesn't have to be the top deal..  middle of the road will still be 35-40 mil.

Not sure I’d say middle of the road is 40 mil. If he’s MVP contention level at least then it’s easier. He gets the big money near ARod territory. Gets much trickier with anything less. All it takes is two teams bidding on a QB as a FA to likely get an overpriced deal near the ARod level. So if your Hurts agent what would you settle for after this season? 50 mil…yes. I’d say 40 mil yes. 30 is a tougher call. You figure the salary cap will probably balloon like everything else these days. But the you get into guarantees. How many years? Those are the key sticking points. How much will Hurts agent risk on bonus money after Watson just signed the mega guaranteed contract? Kind of becomes nightmare territory to figure out those details if it’s not top of the market money.

So maybe you have certain tiers of play this season that can lead to certain contract details for the FO to be willing to sign him for differing lengths, differing guarantees versus differing bonus incentive contracts. That’s several moving parts of the contract. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/aaron-rodgers-3745/

Top two contracts in football are ARod and Watson. This would be the high bar a year later with the cap supposedly massively exploding with inflation and recovery from COVID. Believe the new TV contract kicks in….which is always huge

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/deshaun-watson-21753/

5 years 230,000 all guaranteed for Watson

That’s 46 mil fully guaranteed for each of 5 seasons.

So I wouldn’t call 40 the middle of the road. 46 is arguably the biggest contract in football.

I’d say if you are willing to sign Hurts at 40 mil or more….you wouldn’t have to be forced to do it after this season. Pretty sure he’d accept that during his final contract year. Possibly even after. Tag to work out paying him that amount. I’d actually point out the team could have a tiny bit of leverage to get him signed under these conditions because of his stellar reputation. Him holding out or playing hard ball when the team leaks they offered him that insane amount would look bad for him. Many players can force things more…..but it would arguably be the very first negative knock on his character….from a fan perspective.

It’s really the only place Hurts flawless reputation works against him.

How are you guys feeling on the Tartt signing? He’s been less than impressive to me in his career. Can lay some big hits. Can play some zone. Not doing enough in man coverage. Can he be a part of two high safety looks is probably the big question. Don’t think Harris is much in that area. So Tartt might be the best option to pair with Epps in those looks. Really was expecting that’s what Gannon likes. We just were so poor run stopping last year he couldn’t afford to. Looks like we added the personnel to make that happen now…..if we have two S that can hold the fort and be sure tacklers. Tartt isn’t the fastest….not even sure he’s that sure a tackler. Not durable either. 

5 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Not sure I’d say middle of the road is 40 mil. If he’s MVP contention level at least then it’s easier. He gets the big money near ARod territory. Gets much trickier with anything less. All it takes is two teams bidding on a QB as a FA to likely get an overpriced deal near the ARod level. So if your Hurts agent what would you settle for after this season? 50 mil…yes. I’d say 40 mil yes. 30 is a tougher call. You figure the salary cap will probably balloon like everything else these days. But the you get into guarantees. How many years? Those are the key sticking points. How much will Hurts agent risk on bonus money after Watson just signed the mega guaranteed contract? Kind of becomes nightmare territory to figure out those details if it’s not top of the market money.

Ok...semantics....35 mil...if you want it to be 34.65 mil then whatever....irrelevant to the point.  He is going to either get the money before next year or that means they are looking to move on.  If he stays for peanuts next year, it's to be a place holder...it's not because the Eagles are giving him extra time,it's because they didn't feel the price was worth it for either draft or veteran.  And or Strong may be in play to show what he has to offer.

5 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Ok...semantics....35 mil...if you want it to be 34.65 mil then whatever....irrelevant to the point.  He is going to either get the money before next year or that means they are looking to move on.  If he stays for peanuts next year, it's to be a place holder...it's not because the Eagles are giving him extra time,it's because they didn't feel the price was worth it for either draft or veteran.  And or Strong may be in play to show what he has to offer.

What I’m saying is the top dollar franchise money is easier . Rosie described Wentz as the toughest contract he ever accomplished. Mahomes was a serious struggle. These were obvious guys the FO was all about. So go ahead and describe how the FOand an agent can agree on 30 mil a year. For how long? And what guarantees? Where do both meet at and the deal happens? Obviously I feel it depends greatly on what transpires this season. Then both sides have their values set. Will both find a common ground? That is much more difficult. Why my standards are set at contending for MVP to make the obvious contract negotiable.

15 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

What I’m saying is the top dollar franchise money is easier . Rosie described Wentz as the toughest contract he ever accomplished. Mahomes was a serious struggle. These were obvious guys the FO was all about. So go ahead and describe how the FOand an agent can agree on 30 mil a year. For how long? And what guarantees? Where do both meet at and the deal happens? Obviously I feel it depends greatly on what transpires this season. Then both sides have their values set. Will both find a common ground? That is much more difficult. Why my standards are set at contending for MVP to make the obvious contract negotiable.

You miss the point and keep missing it.   It's not about coming to a point to agree upon.   It's about if the QB is perceived as a long term starting QB.  Not a haggle of a few million to where he needs to be the highest paid guy in the league.

But say we live in your world here..  Eagles want to pay 30 mil , he wants 35.    It's still the highest paid position BY FAR on the team.     It's semantics at thar point.   They aren't going to avoid a deal and have Hurts play out his final year if it's obvious he is a franchise QB.    Franchise doesn't mean MVP level...it just means he is a long term starter they feel they can win with.

Happy Father's day to all the dads on here!!!

22 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Happy Father's day to all the dads on here!!!

Absolutely hope everybody enjoyed their day

29 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

You miss the point and keep missing it.   It's not about coming to a point to agree upon.   It's about if the QB is perceived as a long term starting QB.  Not a haggle of a few million to where he needs to be the highest paid guy in the league.

But say we live in your world here..  Eagles want to pay 30 mil , he wants 35.    It's still the highest paid position BY FAR on the team.     It's semantics at thar point.   They aren't going to avoid a deal and have Hurts play out his final year if it's obvious he is a franchise QB.    Franchise doesn't mean MVP level...it just means he is a long term starter they feel they can win with.

I understand a franchise QB doesn’t mean he has to be MVP.  Just foreseeing how difficult hashing out a mega QB contract is. My feelings are that Hurts hasn't earned the Franchise QB label. So anything less than absolute blockbuster I don’t see them being able to work out a long term extension after this season. I think they’d have to come to an understanding the opposite of the Watson contract. Instead of 46 mil fully guaranteed. It would be heavy incentive bonus based contract.