EMB Blog: 2022 OTAs thru Pre-Season

[Alphagrand]

10 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

 

I haven't been impressed with any of those 3 guys pictured in what I've seen so far.  Levis would be the best of that group.  Hopefully Van Dyke and/or McKee have really good seasons and are the preferred targets.

[NCiggles]

11 hours ago, Wentz_Era said:

Heat sensitivity is a side effect of it...google it, dummy!

Being sensitive to heat doesn't mean you are more at risk for heat stroke.  Also if you read the studies you google, you would see that heat and cold sensitivity are self reported symptoms in about 6% of vaccine recipients.  That could also be related to people who's immune system responds to the vaccine stronger and has a fever.  It's just not the same thing as being more likely to die of heat stroke.  Heat stroke is caused by exposure to high temperatures or somtimes strenous exertion in a warm environment.  Barber was trying to exercise in a sauna above 90 degrees.  

[jsb235]

23 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

I dont think anyone is a true Hurts  Hater. I think all, or 99% of us want him to succeed. 

BUT, if you turned on just 1 game after week  youll realize that the eagles won the lest Hurts was involved. 

Think about, the less Hurts had the ball in his hand, the better...WAY BETTER the team did. 

This is all false. You refuse to consider the fact that running is an integral part of Hurts' game. Therefore, in that context, he can never succeed.

You talk about the team being "more successful the less Hurts was involved," but this is a reference to the passing game only. So the only way Hurts succeeds in your mind is if he passes for 5,000 yards and never runs the ball at all. That is never going to happen.

That's what Hurts Haters are. They have a limited vision on what a successful qb is, and can't see anything outside of that. So when Hurts generates yards and points with his legs, that doesn't figure into their assessment of the qb.

The issue is, this isn't consistent with reality. That's why the discussion about Hurts in this blog is so far divorced from the discussion that takes place outside of it.

Do yourself a favor. Watch this podcast.

(195) Tua Tagovailoa, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts & More! | PFF At Night - YouTube

Here are people who are paid to discuss football talking about various qbs, including Hurts. Now imagine you spouting something like, "they took the ball out of his hands and got better," in the middle of it. Do you think that would make you look smart or dumb?

The truth is that you are out of step with the vast majority of mainstream opinions when it comes to Hurts. The question is not whether he can be an average NFL qb. He has already cleared that bar. The only question left is whether or not he can be elite.

Think of it like a football game. It's the fourth quarter, and you are still trying to figure out where to park.

That's why the interpretation of Gunn's reporting is so hilarious to me. He wasn't reporting that some inside the Eagles are questioning whether or not Hurts can be a starting qb, he was reporting that they were not sure whether or not they should be handing him $40 million a year. But the Hurts Haters took it as a sign that maybe he won't be starting, which is simply absurd.

[NCiggles]

29 minutes ago, Swoop said:

They don't understand that. 

They think that not being sold/being critical means you want him and the Eagles to fail.

It's more telling about the person that makes the accusation.  It really shows what their thoughts are on the team when they dislike a player. 

[Shalodeep]

9 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

This is all false. You refuse to consider the fact that running is an integral part of Hurts' game. Therefore, in that context, he can never succeed.

You talk about the team being "more successful the less Hurts was involved," but this is a reference to the passing game only. So the only way Hurts succeeds in your mind is if he passes for 5,000 yards and never runs the ball at all. That is never going to happen.

That's what Hurts Haters are. They have a limited vision on what a successful qb is, and can't see anything outside of that. So when Hurts generates yards and points with his legs, that doesn't figure into their assessment of the qb.

The issue is, this isn't consistent with reality. That's why the discussion about Hurts in this blog is so far divorced from the discussion that takes place outside of it.

Do yourself a favor. Watch this podcast.

(195) Tua Tagovailoa, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts & More! | PFF At Night - YouTube

Here are people who are paid to discuss football talking about various qbs, including Hurts. Now imagine you spouting something like, "they took the ball out of his hands and got better," in the middle of it. Do you think that would make you look smart or dumb?

The truth is that you are out of step with the vast majority of mainstream opinions when it comes to Hurts. The question is not whether he can be an average NFL qb. He has already cleared that bar. The only question left is whether or not he can be elite.

Think of it like a football game. It's the fourth quarter, and you are still trying to figure out where to park.

That's why the interpretation of Gunn's reporting is so hilarious to me. He wasn't reporting that some inside the Eagles are questioning whether or not Hurts can be a starting qb, he was reporting that they were not sure whether or not they should be handing him $40 million a year. But the Hurts Haters took it as a sign that maybe he won't be starting, which is simply absurd.

His running wouldn't be frowned upon if he could pass too...but that's above your understanding of anything. It's not a hurts good/hurts bad argument. It's hurts is very lacking in the air game so he has to compensate with his legs. If he could throw with anticipation and accuracy, very few would complain about his running. Problem is...he can't, or rather hasn't shown the ability to be consistent in the air. Keep thinking in absolutes though. It's a great learning tool @_@

[UndyTaker]

6 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Levis or McKee for me. 

I want no parts of a bama/OSU QB.  EVER 

Im not big on OSU QB's either and I like Young, but if you had a choice between keeping Hurts or drafting one of those 2 players which would you choose? Im taking Stroud if I have to tbh lol

[UndyTaker]

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

Will Levis. Big Body, can read a defense, and has the strongest arm in the class, 

I look at Stroud and Young as Justin Fields and Tua 2.0. No thanks. 

No im saying if all the other QBs are drafted by the time and somehow in this hypothetical situation Stroud and Young are the only QBs left. Do you take one of those players or do you keep Hurts?

[TorontoEagle]

4 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Think about this... Siriani and Shane said, we gotta keep Hurts under 20 attempts and under 8 rushing attempts and I think we'll have a great chance to win in the final 10 games and it's exactly what they did. 

 

What's kind of sad is Hurts has fallen into something of a Peter Principle scenario. In that he's always relied on his legs and could throw just enough to be a QB, because in high school/college, you want your best athlete to have the ball in his hands at all times. 

But if we were evaluating players and putting them in their absolute best position to succeed....Hurts would actually be a really good running back, IMO. He's got a good frame for an RB, he is a really good runner, with nice moves and decent vision (running vision, not passing). But he'll never "recede" to the role of RB, because he's been "promoted" to being a QB for so long. But as a QB, he's a failure. 

[Shalodeep]

Difference of hurt fans and hurt doubters.  Here is a hypothetical stat line that creates the debate.

Hurts goes 12/18 178 yards 1 passing touchdown and runs for 50.  Team wins 24-13. Was this a good game? 

Hurts fans see 66% completion and a touchdown. Hurts doubters see a team who didn't want the QB involved. There are plenty of games like this so far in his career.

[TorontoEagle]

Just now, Shalodeep said:

Difference of hurt fans and hurt doubters.  Here is a hypothetical stat line that creates the debate.

Hurts goes 12/18 178 yards 1 passing touchdown and runs for 50.  Team wins 24-13. Was this a good game? 

Hurts fans see 66% completion and a touchdown. Hurts doubters see a team who didn't want the QB involved. There are plenty of games like this so far in his career.

In this day and age of the NFL, with Smith/Brown/Goedert....under 200 yards passing is an abomination. 

[Shalodeep]

4 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

In this day and age of the NFL, with Smith/Brown/Goedert....under 200 yards passing is an abomination. 

Oh I agree 1000% so you can guess where I stand

[NCiggles]

10 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

This is all false. You refuse to consider the fact that running is an integral part of Hurts' game. Therefore, in that context, he can never succeed.

You talk about the team being "more successful the less Hurts was involved," but this is a reference to the passing game only. So the only way Hurts succeeds in your mind is if he passes for 5,000 yards and never runs the ball at all. That is never going to happen.

That's what Hurts Haters are. They have a limited vision on what a successful qb is, and can't see anything outside of that. So when Hurts generates yards and points with his legs, that doesn't figure into their assessment of the qb.

The issue is, this isn't consistent with reality. That's why the discussion about Hurts in this blog is so far divorced from the discussion that takes place outside of it.

Do yourself a favor. Watch this podcast.

(195) Tua Tagovailoa, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts & More! | PFF At Night - YouTube

Here are people who are paid to discuss football talking about various qbs, including Hurts. Now imagine you spouting something like, "they took the ball out of his hands and got better," in the middle of it. Do you think that would make you look smart or dumb?

The truth is that you are out of step with the vast majority of mainstream opinions when it comes to Hurts. The question is not whether he can be an average NFL qb. He has already cleared that bar. The only question left is whether or not he can be elite.

Think of it like a football game. It's the fourth quarter, and you are still trying to figure out where to park.

That's why the interpretation of Gunn's reporting is so hilarious to me. He wasn't reporting that some inside the Eagles are questioning whether or not Hurts can be a starting qb, he was reporting that they were not sure whether or not they should be handing him $40 million a year. But the Hurts Haters took it as a sign that maybe he won't be starting, which is simply absurd.

There were games that he had last season where he played like a below average QB.  In the games he did well in it was not because he was working as an effective passer but because he was dynamic running the ball.  The problem for the team is that when the run game is not working, we cannot expect Hurts to be efficient passing the ball.  

Gunn is a reputable reporter and his sources tend to be veteran players on the team. I am sure he also has connections inside the coaching staff and FO.   I don't think he is repeating that quote without permission.  I don't know whether the quote is accurate but I think it is telling about what some people on the team think of Hurts. 

Hurts is in a make it as a top 10 QB year.  He has no excuses.  If he is not significantly improved as a passer, it's clear the team is going to look to replace him.  If he looks unimproved or regresses, it would not surprise me to see them start either Minshew or Strong.  

11 minutes ago, UndyTaker said:

Im not big on OSU QB's either and I like Young, but if you had a choice between keeping Hurts or drafting one of those 2 players which would you choose? Im taking Stroud if I have to tbh lol

I am not a big Bryce Young fan mostly because of his size.  

[Shalodeep]

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

 

As a Hurts "doubter" the problem with those stat lines is, your not taking into account the eye test. 

If Hurts goes 12/18 and we score 24 points it probably means the defense scored us a touchdown, we couldnt move the ball and we had 18 attempts cause the coaches were scare poopless to let him throw the ball based on previous results. 

 

Or they hid behind the oline and running game. They treat him like a backup holding the forte down with the scheme they ran the second half of the season. My point being he creates debate with the stat lines he creates.  On one side he looks super effecient, on the other he looks like a bum skimming by. 

[TorontoEagle]

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

So...

lets say Hurts plays all 17 games. How many games does he throw for under 200 yards?

Just to give you context,  He finished the year with 9 games under 200 yards and another one with 214. Which I'm sure if we go back and look the last 14 yards was striaght garbage time lol

Lol I was gonna say, how many games do we play against teams with winning records? Because he'll go over 200 yards in garbage time against them. 

[Shalodeep]

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

which is where the eye test comes into play. 

If I see Aaron Rodgers go 12/18 1td, 24 total points, my mind goes, they game out slinging, jumped up early and took the air out of the ball running it in the 2nd half.

If I see Jalen Hurts with 12/18, 1Td,. 24 total points my mind says, thank god the defense bailed him out 

Funny part is...he threw less yards like 5 times last year than I posted so the number is realistic enough

[Swoop]

56 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

That's what Hurts Haters are. They have a limited vision on what a successful qb is, and can't see anything outside of that. So when Hurts generates yards and points with his legs, that doesn't figure into their assessment of the qb.

Here's the issue:

When a QB is so reliant on running the ball and does so to the extent that Hurts does, it isn't a winning formula long term. That's exactly why Hurts can't seem to beat a team with a winning record. It might be great at times during the regular season, but it will get shut down against the top teams (see: Tampa).

Using his legs wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't looking to run constantly. To use everyone's favorite comparison in Josh Allen, he and Hurts had similar enough rushing stats. Hurts had more attempts (barely) and more TDs. The problem is that Josh Allen almost completed as many passes as Hurts attempted.

That is the issue. Hurts can't throw anywhere near as successfully and needs to run, run, run just to get himself to being the level of "average". Josh Allen would still be an extremely good QB if his running got taken away. We've seen what Hurts looks like when his gets taken away.

[UndyTaker]

I would be more excited to see what David Mills could do behind this line with these weapons than Hurts. 9 games under 200 yards is crazy to me lol.

You know it doesnt help Hurt's case that a lot of people didnt like the fact that he was drafted in the first place. Not only was I angry at the fact we took a 2nd round pick on a QB, but of all QBs we took him. I just dont understand what the FO saw in him in the first place. He was never a good passer coming out of collage. Everywhere he played he also had supreme talent around him and it still didnt make him look good. And now 2 years in and he struggles to get 200 yards in a game. This is just pent up frustration from the fans that never liked this kid coming out of collage in the first place and knew he was never going to make it as a QB in today's game.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Here's the issue:

When a QB is so reliant on running the ball and does so to the extent that Hurts does, it isn't a winning formula long term. That's exactly why Hurts can't seem to beat a team with a winning record. It might be great at times during the regular season, but it will get shut down against the top teams (see: Tampa).

Using his legs wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't looking to run constantly. To use everyone's favorite comparison in Josh Allen, he and Hurts had similar enough rushing stats. Hurts had more attempts (barely) and more TDs. The problem is that Josh Allen almost completed as many passes as Hurts attempted.

That is the issue. Hurts can't throw anywhere near as successfully and needs to run, run, run just to get himself to being the level of "average". Josh Allen would still be an extremely good QB if his running got taken away. We've seen what Hurts looks like when his gets taken away.

As I posted yesterday.....

Patrick Mahomes ran for 965 less yards than Hurts in his first 20 starts.

Patrick Mahomes had 1491 more yards of total offense than Hurts in his first 20 starts.

[jsb235]

Just now, Swoop said:

That is the issue. Hurts can't throw anywhere near as successfully and needs to run, run, run just to get himself to being the level of "average".

But that's the issue, right? He is average due to his running ability. That's why he's the starting qb of the team. That's why he is in line for a massive payday, which is where the debate is at. He's already average. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you fall in line with reality.

Sure, he's not as good as Josh Allen, or any of the other top qbs, and will likely never reach their level. But does the team need Josh Allen to win a Super Bowl? Is that the only path to success? Garoppolo, Goff, Foles, Flacco, Kaepernick, Grossman, Hasselbeck, Delhomme and Johnson have all played in the Super Bowl over the last 20 years. Maybe having a Josh Allen isn't the only way you can win.

But we will see. The facts are that Hurts is the starting qb, and if the Eagles win football games, he will remain the starting qb. Whether you think that is a good idea or not is irrelevant.

[Shalodeep]

13 minutes ago, UndyTaker said:

I would be more excited to see what David Mills could do behind this line with these weapons than Hurts. 9 games under 200 yards is crazy to me lol.

You know it doesnt help Hurt's case that a lot of people didnt like the fact that he was drafted in the first place. Not only was I angry at the fact we took a 2nd round pick on a QB, but of all QBs we took him. I just dont understand what the FO saw in him in the first place. He was never a good passer coming out of collage. Everywhere he played he also had supreme talent around him and it still didnt make him look good. And now 2 years in and he struggles to get 200 yards in a game. This is just pent up frustration from the fans that never liked this kid coming out of collage in the first place and knew he was never going to make it as a QB in today's game.

Funny to see someone else use the Mills comparison. Mills on a much worse team looked far more promising as a passer. had the same amount of TDS in an actual rookie year

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Garoppolo, Goff, Foles, Flacco, Kaepernick, Grossman, Hasselbeck, Delhomme and Johnson

Only the two bolded won a Super Bowl. 

Nick Foles won the NFCCG and Super Bowl with his arm.

Brad Johnson played on a team with a historically good defense.  They were 500 yards better than second best in yards allowed, and allowed 12.3 PPG.

[Swoop]

15 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

But that's the issue, right? He is average due to his running ability. That's why he's the starting qb of the team. That's why he is in line for a massive payday, which is where the debate is at. He's already average. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you fall in line with reality.

Sure, he's not as good as Josh Allen, or any of the other top qbs, and will likely never reach their level. But does the team need Josh Allen to win a Super Bowl? Is that the only path to success? Garoppolo, Goff, Foles, Flacco, Kaepernick, Grossman, Hasselbeck, Delhomme and Johnson have all played in the Super Bowl over the last 20 years. Maybe having a Josh Allen isn't the only way you can win.

But we will see. The facts are that Hurts is the starting qb, and if the Eagles win football games, he will remain the starting qb. Whether you think that is a good idea or not is irrelevant.

So the bottom line is, you're good with mediocre/average and the "haters" want someone good/elite.

[jsb235]

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

1) Why do you keep saying Hurts is average? He's not, his numbers tell you that, your eyes tell you that, even Todd Bowles told you that

Reality and your perception of reality are two different things. 

2) Using Flacco, Kap, Hasselback are what we call OUTLIERS. for every 1 Jimmy G theres a Peyton Manning. Every Kap theres a Tom Brady. 

I listed nine qbs in 20 years. That's not what the word outlier means.

3) He is no where near in line of a major pay day. You know who's in line of a major payday... Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert. Guys like Tua, Fields, Hurts are NO WHERE NEAR a big pay day

15 qbs make more than $25 million a year. With the salary cap going up, an average qb is going to cost north of $30 million a year. Again, reality and your perception of reality are two different things. 

 

[jsb235]

Just now, Swoop said:

So the bottom line is, you're good with mediocre/average and the "haters" want someone good/elite.

Everyone wants someone elite. The haters just have no concept of the reality that finding an elite qb is not an easy thing to do. How many qbs have been drafted in the last 20 years and how many were elite? That's the issue.

[Alphagrand]

What it all comes down to is the type of offense the Eagles want to run and how it fits into their organizational philosophy.  That is far more important than one individual player at the QB position.

It has been said quite a few times that the Eagles wish to win games by throwing the football.  There is a substantive reason for that; it's the way the NFL game has been trending for some time and continues to do so.  A few examples of successful offenses from 2021 and their offensive breakdown:

Chiefs -- 1,106 total plays -- 675 pass plays and 431 running plays = 61% passing offense

Bucs -- 1,116 total plays -- 731 pass plays and 385 running plays = 65.5% passing offense

Turds -- 1,110 total plays -- 647 pass plays and 473 running plays = 58% passing offense

Packers -- 1,039 total plays -- 593 passing plays and 446 running plays = 57% passing offense

Rams -- 1,027 total plays -- 607 passing plays and 420 running plays = 59% passing offense

 

Eagles -- 1,044 total plays -- 494 passing plays and 550 running plays = 47% passing offense

 

If the organization is targeting 1,100 offensive plays over 17 games, that's about 65 offensive plays per game.  If they're targeting a 60% passing offense, that means your QB is throwing the football 39 times per game.  That means you need your QB to be capable of 25/39 or 26/39 as the standard.  11 yards per completion would be 275 yards per game passing, on average.  

The Eagles will need to determine this season if Hurts is capable of operating this type of offense -- because to be a contending team that's pretty much the requirement.