Shalodeep Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, jsb235 said: Everyone wants someone elite. The haters just have no concept of the reality that finding an elite qb is not an easy thing to do. How many qbs have been drafted in the last 20 years and how many were elite? That's the issue. This conversation doesn't even begin at elite. I would take a Carr tier QB. It doesn't have to be top ten. It's about distributing the ball efficiently instead of trying to do it all. He can't distribute accurately so he compensates with his legs. We aren't looking for compensating with a RB skill set, we like compensation with dump offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanMeanGM Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Garoppolo = played in a SB. Team trades haul for Trey Lance 1 year later. Goff = played in a SB. Team trades a haul for an upgrade (Stafford) 2 years later. Foles = won SB. Returned to backup. Signed franchise deal 1 year later and benched again in the same year. Flacco = had an elite post season run and won SB. Only won 1 playoff game since. Kaepernick = not touching this one Grossman = played in SB. Benched after first 3 weeks next year. Johnson = benched shortly a year after winning the SB. Great examples of long term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Shalodeep said: This conversation doesn't even begin at elite. I would take a Carr tier QB. It doesn't have to be top ten. It's about distributing the ball efficiently instead of trying to do it all. He can't distribute accurately so he compensates with his legs. We aren't looking for compensating with a RB skill set, we like compensation with dump offs. So you would pay a qb $40 million a year to be a worse version of Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen and Herbert? That's your plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Just now, LeanMeanGM said: Garoppolo = played in a SB. Team trades haul for Trey Lance 1 year later. Goff = played in a SB. Team trades a haul for an upgrade (Stafford) 2 years later. Foles = won SB. Returned to backup. Signed franchise deal 1 year later and benched again in the same year. Flacco = had an elite post season run and won SB. Only won 1 playoff game since. Kaepernick = not touching this one Grossman = played in SB. Benched after first 3 weeks next year. Johnson = benched shortly a year after winning the SB. Great examples of long term success. The argument isn't long term success. The argument is that a team with average qb play can't win in the NFL. Try to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoEagle Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, jsb235 said: So you would pay a qb $40 million a year to be a worse version of Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen and Herbert? That's your plan? You just posted how you don't need an elite level QB to get to the Super Bowl. Do you think a Carr type at $40 million is worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Just now, TorontoEagle said: You just posted how you don't need an elite level QB to get to the Super Bowl. Do you think a Carr type at $40 million is worth it? If you have an average qb, you don't go out and get an average qb. Seems pretty obvious, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoEagle Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Just now, jsb235 said: If you have an average qb, you don't go out and get an average qb. Seems pretty obvious, no? We don't have an average QB. We have a running back masquerading as a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said: We don't have an average QB. We have a running back masquerading as a QB. Again, your perception of reality and reality are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanMeanGM Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, jsb235 said: The argument isn't long term success. The argument is that a team with average qb play can't win in the NFL. Try to keep up. More than half the guys listed never won a championship. 2 out of 3 that won were replaced within less than 2 years because the team went with someone else they thought were better options to win. So again, great examples, good work. Let's try to replicate flukey SB's that were mostly carried by D and mostly fell short. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalodeep Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, jsb235 said: So you would pay a qb $40 million a year to be a worse version of Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen and Herbert? That's your plan? There are very few i would pay 40. Hurts wouldn't get more than 12 from me until he became more than just a garbage passer with good running ability. Would I pay 40 to have a QB who could give me a true shot at a Superbowl the next three years with this talent vs 25 for five years for a guy I know who couldn't do it unless carried? Absolutely Carr with this talent would be something to fear. Hurts running is an annoyance at worst that a disciplined team makes him look even worse 11 minutes ago, jsb235 said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoEagle Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, jsb235 said: Again, your perception of reality and reality are two different things. Your perception of reality and reality are two different things. You, and a small minority hold some strange view that Hurts is an average QB (some think even more of him). The team doesn't like him (as evidenced by the multiple attempts to upgrade from him), the coaches don't think much of him (as evidenced by not allowing him to do what a QB should do, throw the ball), and most of the fans realize he ain't it. You continually want to add in his running numbers to consider him average, but no run first QB has ever won a Super Bowl. And there's a much better version of Hurts in Baltimore, and he has been and will be a failure too. 16 PASSING TDs in this day and age is completely unacceptable. It just is. If you think that's even an AVERAGE standard, you must have some of the lowest standards imaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Just now, TorontoEagle said: Your perception of reality and reality are two different things. You, and a small minority hold some strange view that Hurts is an average QB QB Power Rankings 2021: Aaron Rodgers is king, again (profootballnetwork.com) NFL QB Index: Ranking all 62 starting QBs of the 2021 NFL season Final 2021 NFL Quarterback Rankings | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF NFL QB Rankings: Check our top-20 quarterbacks, Baker Mayfield makes list (sportsnaut.com) Yup, I am the one out of touch with reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalodeep Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, jsb235 said: QB Power Rankings 2021: Aaron Rodgers is king, again (profootballnetwork.com) NFL QB Index: Ranking all 62 starting QBs of the 2021 NFL season Final 2021 NFL Quarterback Rankings | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF NFL QB Rankings: Check our top-20 quarterbacks, Baker Mayfield makes list (sportsnaut.com) Yup, I am the one out of touch with reality. So 26th ranked, 26th ranked, 7th ranked, 24th ranked, 13th. ... You are definitely out of touch. Cool, he was the best runner. Bum everywhere else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwestbrook36 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, jsb235 said: QB Power Rankings 2021: Aaron Rodgers is king, again (profootballnetwork.com) NFL QB Index: Ranking all 62 starting QBs of the 2021 NFL season Final 2021 NFL Quarterback Rankings | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF NFL QB Rankings: Check our top-20 quarterbacks, Baker Mayfield makes list (sportsnaut.com) Yup, I am the one out of touch with reality. While he may not be the best from a passing standpoint, he might be able to approach 1,000 yards on the ground next year and rise even further in many NFL QB rankings aside from fantasy football. From one of your articles.... Again they are ranking him off his running ability.... That's not the QBs job and that's what we are saying! He is great in fantasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanMeanGM Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 @TorontoEagle Damn, you just got owned with a list that has Hurts 17, 17 and 16 when the average QB based on starting options is 16 but in reality an average QB is much higher than 16 since the bottom third is constantly re-shuffled with stop gaps or journeyman. You got so owned, touch grass, newb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalodeep Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Growth for fan boys like you is if he ended up 20th in passing this year... He is garbage in the air and it's embarrassing you guys can't accept that. Nearly 25% of his total yards came from running. Over 1/3 of his touchdowns came from the ground. He had 9 games where he didn't break 200 yards, and had 1 to 0 passing TDS in I believe 9 as well. He isn't a QB. He is a runner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanMeanGM Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/2022-fantasy-football-quarterback-tiers-tier-5-split-between-upside-of-justin-fields-and-floor-of-derek-carr/ Tier 2. You are all so out of touch on Jalen's greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoEagle Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, jsb235 said: QB Power Rankings 2021: Aaron Rodgers is king, again (profootballnetwork.com) NFL QB Index: Ranking all 62 starting QBs of the 2021 NFL season Final 2021 NFL Quarterback Rankings | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF NFL QB Rankings: Check our top-20 quarterbacks, Baker Mayfield makes list (sportsnaut.com) Yup, I am the one out of touch with reality. From the first article, nothing about his passing acumen, but ends with: Hurts has improved as much as any player on this list from one year to the next — he’s been pivotal in transforming one of the league’s most formidable rushing offenses. Next article: That doesn't erase the gains that came in his other 15 starts, where his pocket passing took a huge step forward. His running ability gives him a high baseline, and he's a solid starting quarterback at worst, which is quite a find for a highly criticized second-round pick. Pocket passing took a huge step forward? From what? And to what? It's still terrible....he can't see over the line, he takes the snap squatted down like a RB, spins in circles in clean pockets, etc. Next article is PFF, which is a joke. Finally, the last one you gave is a fantasy football site. And even then: While he may not be the best from a passing standpoint, he might be able to approach 1,000 yards on the ground next year and rise even further in many NFL QB rankings aside from fantasy football. Lol, is that the write-ups you want to see about your QB? His best selling point is his running ability. Which, besides being relatively easy to shut down for good defenses, also leads to more likelihood Hurts will get injured. Or, like last year, slightly injured, but enough to take away his running ability, and then he has to rely on his arm and we're screwed. He's an above average RB, and a below average QB. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said: @TorontoEagle Damn, you just got owned with a list that has Hurts 17, 17 and 16 when the average QB based on starting options is 16 but in reality an average QB is much higher than 16 since the bottom third is constantly re-shuffled with stop gaps or journeyman. You got so owned, touch grass, newb. Hmm, Hurts can't be "average" because "average" is whatever I say it is. Nice argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoEagle Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said: @TorontoEagle Damn, you just got owned with a list that has Hurts 17, 17 and 16 when the average QB based on starting options is 16 but in reality an average QB is much higher than 16 since the bottom third is constantly re-shuffled with stop gaps or journeyman. You got so owned, touch grass, newb. Back to the CFL I go... Hilariously.....Hurts would be a super star and likely the best player in the CFL if he came here. His style is perfect for CFL ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Just now, TorontoEagle said: From the first article, nothing about his passing acumen, but ends with: Hurts has improved as much as any player on this list from one year to the next — he’s been pivotal in transforming one of the league’s most formidable rushing offenses. Next article: That doesn't erase the gains that came in his other 15 starts, where his pocket passing took a huge step forward. His running ability gives him a high baseline, and he's a solid starting quarterback at worst, which is quite a find for a highly criticized second-round pick. Pocket passing took a huge step forward? From what? And to what? It's still terrible....he can't see over the line, he takes the snap squatted down like a RB, spins in circles in clean pockets, etc. Next article is PFF, which is a joke. Finally, the last one you gave is a fantasy football site. And even then: While he may not be the best from a passing standpoint, he might be able to approach 1,000 yards on the ground next year and rise even further in many NFL QB rankings aside from fantasy football. Lol, is that the write-ups you want to see about your QB? His best selling point is his running ability. Which, besides being relatively easy to shut down for good defenses, also leads to more likelihood Hurts will get injured. Or, like last year, slightly injured, but enough to take away his running ability, and then he has to rely on his arm and we're screwed. He's an above average RB, and a below average QB. It's that simple. Again, your view of reality and reality are two different things. You don't think Hurts is an average QB, but there is ample evidence that he is exactly that, an average qb. Just accept it and move on. Your life will be much simpler if you embrace the phrase, "I was wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoop Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 47 minutes ago, jsb235 said: Everyone wants someone elite. The haters just have no concept of the reality that finding an elite qb is not an easy thing to do. How many qbs have been drafted in the last 20 years and how many were elite? That's the issue. See, this is where you have it wrong. We all know it isn't easy. Being afraid to try and find it and hitching your wagon to Jalen Hurts because he's "average" isn't the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Swoop said: See, this is where you have it wrong. We all know it isn't easy. Being afraid to try and find it and hitching your wagon to Jalen Hurts because he's "average" isn't the answer. They aren't afraid to try. They signed Carson Strong, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoEagle Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, jsb235 said: Again, your view of reality and reality are two different things. You don't think Hurts is an average QB, but there is ample evidence that he is exactly that, an average qb. Just accept it and move on. Your life will be much simpler if you embrace the phrase, "I was wrong." Why is he average? Because you say so? What exactly makes him average? 21st in passing yards. 23rd in passing TDs. 28th in completion percentage. 22nd in QB rating. Go ahead. Tell me how good of a running back he is now to buff your weird argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoop Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, jsb235 said: They aren't afraid to try. They signed Carson Strong, right? I'm not saying they are. I'm saying you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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