39 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Also, if Hurts decided pre-game that he wasn't gonna throw to Brown....was Brown open on the play? I'm just asking questions

Hurts didn’t decide that he wasn’t throwing to Brown, the coaches did. The plays were scripted for evaluation and the coaches didn’t see a need to evaluate the connection with Brown, nor display any of that.  

It is possible that given Hurts’ tendency to hold the ball too long that he has been coached to have a timer in his head and because of his running ability the coaches have said that after 2.5 seconds get out of there if no one is open.  

I wholeheartedly agree with @Iggles_Phan that his pocket presence on that play was horrible.  He should have stepped up, not back and right because the RT was taking his man there.  He went into run mode and also cut the field in half as to what he could see.   I hope Nick said one thing to the press and chewed Jalen a new one in the QB room and tried yet again to show him how to view a pocket  

There is no All22 in preseason so we see only what TV shows us.  

13 minutes ago, RLC said:

Too much talk on one bad rep in pre-season game #1. Unsurprisingly, significantly less discussion on his good reps. 

What is there to say about the good reps?   

But, with only about 8 snaps to dissect, the one where the QB puts himself in harms way unnecessarily is going to be discussed.  

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yeah, that's pretty good.   The out to the left was there.

 

But, Hurts was predetermined not to throw the ball to Brown in the game.   It makes sense.  Why throw to your top target on 3rd down when you can bail the pocket?

That was a weird comment by Hurts. Not sure how serious that was or what to make of it. Definitely dumb if he legitimately was never going to throw to him. 

2 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Hurts didn’t decide that he wasn’t throwing to Brown, the coaches did. The plays were scripted for evaluation and the coaches didn’t see a need to evaluate the connection with Brown, nor display any of that.  

It is possible that given Hurts’ tendency to hold the ball too long that he has been coached to have a timer in his head and because of his running ability the coaches have said that after 2.5 seconds get out of there if no one is open.  

I wholeheartedly agree with @Iggles_Phan that his pocket presence on that play was horrible.  He should have stepped up, not back and right because the RT was taking his man there.  He went into run mode and also cut the field in half as to what he could see.   I hope Nick said one thing to the press and chewed Jalen a new one in the QB room and tried yet again to show him how to view a pocket  

There is no All22 in preseason so we see only what TV shows us.  

I suppose it's reasonable to assume the coaches decided that, but the only tweet I saw about it was:

"Going into the game, Jalen told me he wasn’t going to throw me the ball. That’s how it was going to go.”

— Jeff McLane (@Jeff_McLane) August 13, 2022

21 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Great view on the play. If Hurts steps up, the WR on the far sideline breaks open. If Hurts could throw to his left, and with anticipation, it would've been an easy completion. 

But do we really want him throwing across his body? Tight coverage.  But why roll right there except that the right is cleared out so maybe a better running lane?  Only one receiver to the right. Now it’s possible that he felt he had a better chance to get outside the line so he could have the opportunity to throw it away as coverage was pretty tight and thought he saw enough room to run.  Not very impressive route running, no moves or jukes and the crossing pattern showed no effort to come clean at all. Overall a lazy route.  Not great design in the play (hopefully PS vanilla).  Would like to have seen some motion on that play.  It was going to fail presnap.  Good defensive call by the Jets’ DC. 

1 minute ago, BigEFly said:

But do we really want him throwing across his body? Tight coverage.  But why roll right there except that the right is cleared out so maybe a better running lane?  Only one receiver to the right. Now it’s possible that he felt he had a better chance to get outside the line so he could have the opportunity to throw it away as coverage was pretty tight and thought he saw enough room to run.  Not very impressive route running, no moves or jukes and the crossing pattern showed no effort to come clean at all. Overall a lazy route.  Not great design in the play (hopefully PS vanilla).  Would like to have seen some motion on that play.  It was going to fail presnap.  Good defensive call by the Jets’ DC. 

That's an NFL throw.  If he's incapable of making that throw, then we know that we need to find a new QB.  

 

As to why he ran right... he runs predominantly right.  That's hard wired in to him.      And if the thought he had was to throw it away, then shame on him for not doing so.  It was preseason, and I'd have been less critical of that play if he had just thrown it away.  What's to be gained by the 1 yard he picked up by not throwing it away on 3rd and 5?  

18 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

What is there to say about the good reps?   
But, with only about 8 snaps to dissect, the one where the QB puts himself in harms way unnecessarily is going to be discussed.  

The first play is him dodging a free rusher and throwing a perfect 20 yard pass down the sideline. This is trade-off you get with a mobile QB. You will get some highlights and some plays where he bails out of structure too early. 

12 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I suppose it's reasonable to assume the coaches decided that, but the only tweet I saw about it was:

"Going into the game, Jalen told me he wasn’t going to throw me the ball. That’s how it was going to go.”

— Jeff McLane (@Jeff_McLane) August 13, 2022

And why would Hurts know that?  Because the coaches had shared the script with him.  This isn’t a game planned game designed to win, it’s designed to evaluate certain players.  The design of this play was to have certain receivers in certain routes to evaluate their route running and probably had a specific target in mind for that.  

Just now, RLC said:

The first play is him dodging a free rusher and throwing a perfect 20 yard pass down the sideline. This is trade-off you get with a mobile QB. You will get some highlights and some plays where he bails out of structure too early. 

If Hurts were a mobile QB, I'd agree.  The data keeps growing that he's not a mobile QB, he's a running QB.  A mobile QB escapes the pocket because it's necessary.  A running QB escapes the pocket because it's more comfortable.  

38 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Great view on the play. If Hurts steps up, the WR on the far sideline breaks open. If Hurts could throw to his left, and with anticipation, it would've been an easy completion. 

I think he breaks open because he sees Hurts scrambling and turns back towards him.  It's not the design of the route.  If Hurts steps up, he probably does not make that same break back inside.  Also Opeta's man shed him soon after he broke so he might have seen that Opeta had lost leverage on his man.  I am not going to fault him for running. Johnson was beat fairly quickly and at the point he scrambled no one was open.  There's plenty of reasons to fault Hurts but I don't think this decision was bad.  

31 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

If he hung in the pocket, yeah, I think it would have been a relatively easy completion for a first. We agree there. I don’t know where you’re getting a potential TD from it. Maybe you’re looking at the wrong WR. 

No, I'm looking at the right one. If he had any anticipation he hits Brown who can proceed to turn up field and score. There was no safety there. 

On top of that, Brown eventually flipped and went back towards the center, becoming wide open for a walk in TD. Now, I'll give you that he likely flipped sooner because Jalen took off. Having said that, he likely flips anyway (though likely just goes up field) and doesn't continue onward through the sidelines if Hurts is still in the pocket. The corner had has back turned the entire time.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

If Hurts were a mobile QB, I'd agree.  The data keeps growing that he's not a mobile QB, he's a running QB.  A mobile QB escapes the pocket because it's necessary.  A running QB escapes the pocket because it's more comfortable.  

But is he an elite running QB? 

I think you're right.  His mobility is far too often used to run vs. gaining time in the pocket.  

1 hour ago, Swoop said:

There are obviously extremes on both sides of this argument and always will be. Having said that, the amount of Hurtscuses they make for this guy is comical.

It's not just the excuses, it's the how dare you criticize him take too.  These Hurts fans don't even want you to question what he's doing or ask if he's getting better.  How dare you. 

2 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I think he breaks open because he sees Hurts scrambling and turns back towards him.  It's not the design of the route.  If Hurts steps up, he probably does not make that same break back inside.  Also Opeta's man shed him soon after he broke so he might have seen that Opeta had lost leverage on his man.  I am not going to fault him for running. Johnson was beat fairly quickly and at the point he scrambled no one was open.  There's plenty of reasons to fault Hurts but I don't think this decision was bad.  

Johnson wasn't beat... at all.   Johnson stonewalled his man.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

If Hurts were a mobile QB, I'd agree.  The data keeps growing that he's not a mobile QB, he's a running QB.  A mobile QB escapes the pocket because it's necessary.  A running QB escapes the pocket because it's more comfortable.  

A running QB leaves the pocket to run. A mobile QB evades rushes to throw the ball (this can be in or out of the pocket). Hurts does both. The first play is a good example of this. I do agree I'd like to see him run less and use his mobility for more throws.

10 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

And why would Hurts know that?  Because the coaches had shared the script with him.  This isn’t a game planned game designed to win, it’s designed to evaluate certain players.  The design of this play was to have certain receivers in certain routes to evaluate their route running and probably had a specific target in mind for that.  

That's a guess but probably not a good one. 

More likely,  Jalen was concerned about the narrative of him throwing to Brown too much.  He got upset when reporters asked him about it. 

5 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I think he breaks open because he sees Hurts scrambling and turns back towards him.  It's not the design of the route.  If Hurts steps up, he probably does not make that same break back inside.  Also Opeta's man shed him soon after he broke so he might have seen that Opeta had lost leverage on his man.  I am not going to fault him for running. Johnson was beat fairly quickly and at the point he scrambled no one was open.  There's plenty of reasons to fault Hurts but I don't think this decision was bad.  

Sorry but I think you're completely wrong here. Brown runs a simple out route, and breaks open right as he makes the cut to the sideline. Hurts is already bailing out at the cut, when if he just stayed in the pocket he would've had an easy throw for a first. 

1 minute ago, RLC said:

A running QB leaves the pocket to run. A mobile QB evades rushes to throw the ball (this can be in or out of the pocket). Hurts does both. The first play is a good example of this. I do agree I'd like to see him run less and use his mobility for more throws.

A mobile QB throws the ball away on a third down like that, because the instinct remains to throw.  There was no lane to run, so just flip it out of bounds and move on with the next play.  Go for it on 4th and 5, or kick the FG.    But, a running QB sees that he might be able to pick a yard or two on 3rd and 5, and he just takes the yard.   Granted, he shouldn't have been hit, that was a late hit.  It was borderline dirty.  BUT... if he had thrown the ball away when it was evident that the play was dead, then he doesn't take that shot at all.  

Hurts does evade the rush to throw the ball at times.  But he also just leaves the pocket to run.  He's more runner than he is mobile.

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

No, the data doesn't keep growing.  That's what he was and always has been.  We had plenty of data from 4 years in college.  One of the biggest reasons I hated the pick when we made it.  He's not a scrambler, he's a Running QB.  Big difference.  

The data continues to grow even after the trend is clearly defined.

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

Sorry but I think you're completely wrong here. Brown runs a simple out route, and breaks open right as he makes the cut to the sideline. Hurts is already bailing out at the cut, when if he just stayed in the pocket he would've had an easy throw for a first. 

Not sure that's an easy throw for Hurts.   As a matter of fact, I'd say that that is far from an easy throw for him.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Hurts does evade the rush to throw the ball at times.  But he also just leaves the pocket to run.  He's more runner than he is mobile.

We agree here. The next step is to throw more on the move.

29 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

That was a weird comment by Hurts. Not sure how serious that was or what to make of it. Definitely dumb if he legitimately was never going to throw to him. 

AJ Brown said it. And I’d be willing to bet it’s because he saw the tweets or writers talk about Hurts throwing to him all the time so he made a joke/comment after the fact. It would make no sense to purposely not throw the ball to him no matter what. 

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Not sure that's an easy throw for Hurts.   As a matter of fact, I'd say that that is far from an easy throw for him.

Even more reason he should be trying to make it in a pre-season game. Let's see how much he's "developed" from last year. 

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

Even more reason he should be trying to make it in a pre-season game. Let's see how much he's "developed" from last year. 

I agree.

9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Johnson wasn't beat... at all.   Johnson stonewalled his man.

Johnson wasn’t beat. Hurts just ran into pressure 

I think it's really a discussion on how much has Hurts developed vs how much is Hurts still the same guy.

J.T. O'Sullivan really liked Hurts' footwork on the film breakdown of all his throws against the Jets.  I haven't studied Hurts' footwork on his throws and compared it to last season, but hopefully O'Sullivan is onto something there -- because that would likely lead to better accuracy.