I love The Office references!! Miss that show. Welp, I miss like the 1st 6 seasons or so. Nosedived at the end. Same for the show Parks and Rec. Leslie Knope was awesome.

A shame that the Phillies stink. You guys are going to have a long, boring May, June, July (the best team in the world starts in August.....our Eagles!! 🦅🏈) .

He probably wants to be fired. I would. Get paid a ton of money to do nothing??!!

Didn't they have to "talk him into coming back" as Manager a season or two ago? I could be remembering that incorrectly though. I vaguely remember him contemplating retiring, but then he got like a 2 year extension to stay.

18 minutes ago, LacesOut said:

He probably wants to be fired. I would. Get paid a ton of money to do nothing??!!

Didn't they have to "talk him into coming back" as Manager a season or two ago? I could be remembering that incorrectly though. I vaguely remember him contemplating retiring, but then he got like a 2 year extension to stay.

Thomson was going to retire at the end of the 2022 season, but Girardi got fired. Since then, he's basically been on 1-year contracts but before the next season starts, they give him an extra year, so he isn't a lame duck. So, he is under contract through 2027.

Thanks for the clarification, vsp. I kinda figured that I was wrong. 😎🙃

My personal point still remains, as I would have loved to be fired from my banking/credit card job, and still get paid a ton of money to not work. My luck sucks. 😜😜

25 minutes ago, LacesOut said:

Thanks for the clarification, vsp. I kinda figured that I was wrong. 😎🙃

My personal point still remains, as I would have loved to be fired from my banking/credit card job, and still get paid a ton of money to not work. My luck sucks. 😜😜

Yep, it always cracks me up the people who feel sorry for Managers, and GM's who get fired. Most of them are already millionaires and on top of that, they get paid for doing absolutely nothing for the duration of their contract.

I think there is way too much of a myopic view of the Phillies right now. Does anyone actually think that firing Topper could create a spark that drags the Phillies into relevance? It needs to be accepted that the 2026 season is over and, more importantly, that this group of Phillies are over. I'm not sure how much more powerful of a message anyone could be looking for. It was widely apparent in the offseason, let alone now. 3 categories of things to get done, including actionable points for right now:

1. Fire DD. This is the most important step. You can't trust someone to systematically deconstruct what they built (well, Howie, but he's different). This team needs to be sold off piece by piece at the trade deadline and there is NO WAY that DD will do that. They need someone who has no responsibility for this mess to shed veterans and salary for distant assets. DD is too conflicted to do that.

2. Trade Harper and Marsh, ASAP. I get that Stott isn't as bad as he's been at the plate this year. The same can be said for Turner and the viciously maligned Bohm. The inverse is true for Marsh and Harper. We know who Marsh is...and he's playing well above that right now. Harper is on a linear decline. We know this. But he's playing marginally above that trajectory in the now. There were discussions that we'd have to attach value to a Harper trade if we wanted cash relief. Right now, provided he waives his no-trade clause, we'd probably get value. And do you think he really wants to weather the coming storm? An escape hatch to a winning team with better lineup protection probably sounds really good right about now. Just start the purge.

On a delayed course, closer to trade deadline:

1. Shop Turner once his bat heats up. We'd have to attach value to this one, but screw it. Clearing the books of the horribly inflated salaries will shave years off the rebuild.

2. Nola will not be this bad all year. He's never going to be good again, but he'll cobble together a couple decent starts. Then shop him. And yes, it'll take a prospect from us. And a pretty good one. If it's not top 5, they need to seriously consider it. Escobar, Nori, Rincones...it's worth it.

3. Shop Schwarber as the deadline nears.

The real value...and this is where there can be less urgency and more discriminating:

1. Shop Wheeler, Luzardo, and Sanchez. Need to wait on all 3, as more starts and stabilization this year will probably help their value. Collectively, these guys should net a serious haul of prospects.

DD will never be the guy to do all of this. They'll be clinging to trying to win while applying window dressing to this collapsing roster for the next 2 years.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

I think there is way too much of a myopic view of the Phillies right now. Does anyone actually think that firing Topper could create a spark that drags the Phillies into relevance? It needs to be accepted that the 2026 season is over and, more importantly, that this group of Phillies are over. I'm not sure how much more powerful of a message anyone could be looking for. It was widely apparent in the offseason, let alone now. 3 categories of things to get done, including actionable points for right now:

1. Fire DD. This is the most important step. You can't trust someone to systematically deconstruct what they built (well, Howie, but he's different). This team needs to be sold off piece by piece at the trade deadline and there is NO WAY that DD will do that. They need someone who has no responsibility for this mess to shed veterans and salary for distant assets. DD is too conflicted to do that.

2. Trade Harper and Marsh, ASAP. I get that Stott isn't as bad as he's been at the plate this year. The same can be said for Turner and the viciously maligned Bohm. The inverse is true for Marsh and Harper. We know who Marsh is...and he's playing well above that right now. Harper is on a linear decline. We know this. But he's playing marginally above that trajectory in the now. There were discussions that we'd have to attach value to a Harper trade if we wanted cash relief. Right now, provided he waives his no-trade clause, we'd probably get value. And do you think he really wants to weather the coming storm? An escape hatch to a winning team with better lineup protection probably sounds really good right about now. Just start the purge.

On a delayed course, closer to trade deadline:

1. Shop Turner once his bat heats up. We'd have to attach value to this one, but screw it. Clearing the books of the horribly inflated salaries will shave years off the rebuild.

2. Nola will not be this bad all year. He's never going to be good again, but he'll cobble together a couple decent starts. Then shop him. And yes, it'll take a prospect from us. And a pretty good one. If it's not top 5, they need to seriously consider it. Escobar, Nori, Rincones...it's worth it.

3. Shop Schwarber as the deadline nears.

The real value...and this is where there can be less urgency and more discriminating:

1. Shop Wheeler, Luzardo, and Sanchez. Need to wait on all 3, as more starts and stabilization this year will probably help their value. Collectively, these guys should net a serious haul of prospects.

DD will never be the guy to do all of this. They'll be clinging to trying to win while applying window dressing to this collapsing roster for the next 2 years.

I’d fire Thomson simply to give cotham 5 months to show what he can do as a manager. I am assuming it’s mattingly which is a mistake as you’d like to see what cotham can do as prior to this year he’s been great with the staff

Id add dealing Duran when he gets healthy he will be a big commodity. Heck the dodgers without Diaz could be a team who comes calling. I also think Keller will be a commodity if he starts pitching well and getting going. I still think someone would deal for him thinking they can get him back to 2025 Keller. Tbh could see the cubs trading for him again. I actually think a playoff team would deal for a Stott who’s defensively great. He has hit .275 over his last 11 games and a hit in every game he’s started over the last 2 weeks. I could see a team viewing him as their 8-9 hitter in a good lineup and really covet his defense. I just think you’ll get a middle prospect to low end prospect

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’d fire Thomson simply to give cotham 5 months to show what he can do as a manager. I am assuming it’s mattingly which is a mistake as you’d like to see what cotham can do as prior to this year he’s been great with the staff

Id add dealing Duran when he gets healthy he will be a big commodity. Heck the dodgers without Diaz could be a team who comes calling. I also think Keller will be a commodity if he starts pitching well and getting going. I still think someone would deal for him thinking they can get him back to 2025 Keller. Tbh could see the cubs trading for him again. I actually think a playoff team would deal for a Stott who’s defensively great. He has hit .275 over his last 11 games and a hit in every game he’s started over the last 2 weeks. I could see a team viewing him as their 8-9 hitter in a good lineup and really covet his defense.

The tricky thing is that the Phillies are also staring down the barrel of an extended non-competitive streak. If they do it right, they'll aggressively sell off all assets and tank for a few years.

Not exactly the best time to have a big name manager or the manager of the future. If anything, I might actually consider hanging onto the lame duck, even keeled Topper to guide them through the tank.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

The tricky thing is that the Phillies are also staring down the barrel of an extended non-competitive streak. If they do it right, they'll aggressively sell off all assets and tank for a few years.

Not exactly the best time to have a big name manager or the manager of the future. If anything, I might actually consider hanging onto the lame duck, even keeled Topper to guide them through the tank.

Tbh i think they fire long before Thomson. Imo cotham is really the guy who should replace Thomson as interim cause he’s young, he’s likely the guy you could hire and help develop the next generation of Phillies particularly the pitchers as you go through a rebuild. When you get out on the other side could keep him or replace him with a bigger name. 

The issue with trading Turner is the fact he has so many years left on his contract. You’re not gonna get a good prospect if you trade him. Which really shouldn’t be the Phillies goal in getting rid of him. It should be not taking on his money into the future. But I have a feeling the Phillies are going to have to eat a part of his contract just to get rid of him even if it’s not for great prospects. So I don’t see the Phillies eating half that contract and not get good talent back. The problem with Aaron nola is he’s been terrible for the better part of two years. There’s no way they’re getting off that contract with 4 years remaining and he looks awful. I think they’re just stuck with him until they just walker him 2 years from now. 

I don't know - the more I watch pitcher after pitcher of ours get shelled night after night the less I want Cotham anywhere near the manager position.

7 minutes ago, mikemack8 said:

I don't know - the more I watch pitcher after pitcher of ours get shelled night after night the less I want Cotham anywhere near the manager position.

Pitching has been an issue this year. However the last 4 years it’s been our strength and he’s done a good job. I tend to believe his track record over the last 4 years over this past year. Plus the analytics have actually shown luzardo has had some bad luck and our fielding has also contributed to some of our pitching woes. Frankly we aren’t even in the dodgers series without his work with luzardo and sanchez. frankly i won’t blame cotham for Nola, Alvarado and Walker. I think all 3 are just cooked. Painter was actually looking good and improving over the first 5.2 vs Atlanta. Then marsh doesn’t catch a ball and Thomson doesn’t remove painter against a guy who kills RHP and sucks against LHP. Banks stinks this year but the fact we got even 1.5 good years out of him is remarkable. He was a middle tier reliever.

Also think the bullpen is beginning to round into form. Keller has been much better since his Nats blowup. Somehow Kerkering has a 3.00 era and they are going to get Duran back. Issue is Alvarado sucked past two years and banks isn’t a high leverage reliever. He had to be due to lack of LHP in the BP. Mayza and backus stunk before coming here. So expecting them to be good contributors was fools gold by Dave

Issue is really do you need to see mattingly as manager? We know what he is and isn’t. Dusty shouldn’t touch being manager. No way i want long as manager. Imo cotham is your best bet upside for interim through the season.

Turner ,Harper, Schwarber and Nola are here for years, they are going nowhere

2 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Tbh i think they fire long before Thomson. Imo cotham is really the guy who should replace Thomson as interim cause he’s young, he’s likely the guy you could hire and help develop the next generation of Phillies particularly the pitchers as you go through a rebuild. When you get out on the other side could keep him or replace him with a bigger name. 

The issue with trading Turner is the fact he has so many years left on his contract. You’re not gonna get a good prospect if you trade him. Which really shouldn’t be the Phillies goal in getting rid of him. It should be not taking on his money into the future. But I have a feeling the Phillies are going to have to eat a part of his contract just to get rid of him even if it’s not for great prospects. So I don’t see the Phillies eating half that contract and not get good talent back. The problem with Aaron nola is he’s been terrible for the better part of two years. There’s no way they’re getting off that contract with 4 years remaining and he looks awful. I think they’re just stuck with him until they just walker him 2 years from now. 

I just think it's time to break it all down without any squemish reflexes or sentimentality.

Priority 1 should be ruthless and immediate contract cleansing. I see 3 buckets of players:

1. Need to give up meaningful value to get them and their contracts out: Turner and Nola. Do it. I'd give up good prospects.

2. Get something, anything in return: Harper, Schwarber. Do it. Get the best you can. But get their contracts out.

3. Hold out for something really good: Wheeler, Sanchez, Luzardo. But do it.

If the prospects from group 2 can recoup just 50% of the value of what we lose in the group 1 deal, it's worth it. And then group 3 ideally will yield something that helps rebuild the franchise. Once we get some good players up to the big league club, they'll have deep checkbooks to buy new players to complement them.

20 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I just think it's time to break it all down without any squemish reflexes or sentimentality.

Priority 1 should be ruthless and immediate contract cleansing. I see 3 buckets of players:

1. Need to give up meaningful value to get them and their contracts out: Turner and Nola. Do it. I'd give up good prospects.

2. Get something, anything in return: Harper, Schwarber. Do it. Get the best you can. But get their contracts out.

3. Hold out for something really good: Wheeler, Sanchez, Luzardo. But do it.

If the prospects from group 2 can recoup just 50% of the value of what we lose in the group 1 deal, it's worth it. And then group 3 ideally will yield something that helps rebuild the franchise. Once we get some good players up to the big league club, they'll have deep checkbooks to buy new players to complement them.

Issue with Turner and nola they’d have to accept being traded do to their time in the majors. So gotta convince them to want to leave. Don’t think that’s as easy as we think. Then I have a hard time seeing the Phillies giving up prospects to unload them and they don’t have the best farm to give other teams prospects they’d want to do it considering how bad those contracts are.

36 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Issue with Turner and nola they’d have to accept being traded do to their time in the majors. So gotta convince them to want to leave. Don’t think that’s as easy as we think. Then I have a hard time seeing the Phillies giving up prospects to unload them and they don’t have the best farm to give other teams prospects they’d want to do it considering how bad those contracts are.

I just have a hard time seeing this team be reborn in the next decade if they carry these contracts through to completion.

I would tell Turner, Nola, Schwarber, and Harper that we are stripping it down to the studs. They can stay if they want or they could give a list of 6-8 teams they would be willing to accept a trade too. Harper and Schwarber, I wouldn't eat any money. The trading team either takes the rest of the contract or they just stay put.

For a Turner and Nola trade, even if the Phillies have to eat half, I would still trade them. On one hand, you're paying 25 million for 2 guys not playing for you anymore for at least the next 4 years. On the other hand, you'll be saving 25 million. Now, would there be a market for those bums? Who knows.

What teams are stupid enough to take these contracts?

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

I just have a hard time seeing this team be reborn in the next decade if they carry these contracts through to completion.

Frankly they can move wheeler, Harper and schwarber. I actually think can move luzardo too if they wanted. His advanced analytics indicate his numbers should start getting better. I see teams wanting those guys still. Particularly the reds with schwarber. I still don’t see any team taking on Turner and Nola’s contracts. They got too many years and too much money. Might be able to if you eat a good portion of the contract but really if you are doing that then you still have that money on the books. Add on you aren’t getting anything great back even doing it either. Those contracts are close to immovable.

Guys i completely think they could trade at the deadline are schwarber, harper, wheeler, Duran, luzardo, Sanchez, Stott, Sosa (team needing depth), marsh and Keller. Outside chance someone believes they can fix Alvarado with just 2 months on the contract left.

We all know how stubborn DD is. For years he's been doubling down on his horrible contracts and refusing to get rid of guys until they're way past due. Nothing significant will change until Middleton mans up and fires this guy.

Even yesterday we kept hearing how there had to be a change at least Long or Topper or both and nothing happened. How long is Middleton going to sit there and take it in the rearend from DD? Its pathetic.

Thomson out. Mattingly in. It'll be interesting to see if their play improves or not and how different the games are managed.

How the F did Kevin long survive this?