EMB Blog: 2023 Camps and Preseason - NO POLITICS

[Cochis_Calhoun]

6 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Of course, the babies on the PGA Tour are whining already.  Pro golfers are such tools.

So Rory McIlroy has been weirdly angry and pissing and moaning about the players that signed with LIV Golf for the last year, and now they all get to play the PGA events anyway after taking millions of dollars to switch tours, while he gets what, a note of thanks from the PGA director? Sweet F all?

[Iggles_Phan]

29 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I didn’t say wager on "events where they have direct control”.  Quite the opposite, I said "Should be real simple.  Don’t bet on NFL games or action. Period.  That’s it.” 
 

Every thing I read suggests that the NFLPA had no negotiation on that five page rule.  What they did negotiate was allowing Roger some very specific areas f discipline and the interpretation is that Roger’s five page rule springs from the integrity of the game clause.  What does betting on NBA games during a break have to do with the integrity of the game?  What does betting your teammate a steak dinner that your alma mater will beat his in basketball have to do with the integrity of the game.  What even does a parlay during the draft of the number of QBs in the first round, the number of players from x college, etc. have to do with the integrity of the game.  Frankly, want to talk "integrity” of the game, maybe look at Jerruh’s role as a GM and as an investor in a gaming site (especially when Texas has not legalized sports books.  Makes punishment of the players for nonNFL bets seem petty and overreaching. 

The players interviewed in the article said very little was said about the five page rule until the current OTAs/minicamps.  They said the rule was included with a whole raft of rules in basically a one hour meeting and a handbook. One said he thought the rule was what I suggest it should be. One team did a graphic this year to emphasize the rule points rather than rely on players to read Roger’s five page legal treatise. They interviewed two agents that said they had not been given a copy of the rule.  

The company handbook when I started working was hardly the same as when I retired and some of the more experienced players commented on how online betting is a rather new phenomenon. I certainly didn’t have it memorized.  

In my view the betting on nonNFL games on premises should be a team decision and probably get a warning and if a recurrence a fine.  And you turn a blind eye to friendly wagers like alma mater games with teammates, Final Four brackets, blind square pools and fantasy sports with football not including money pools. Pretty much like most workplaces handle the matter.  Roger’s harsh punishments and five page memo are over the top, invasive and controlling as he tends to be.  

One final thought, many states have heightened their privacy laws.  You probably have received notices from credit card companies, on line sites etc. about such changes (usually with an arbitration clause because the companies are scared of class action suits because the tread across the line at times.  If I was a suspended player, I would bring an action against any company that gave the NFL my info about what bets I placed. About the only way the NFL could track going to sites and actually making bets is by a disclosure of that information.  Now, I don’t bet so I couldn’t tell you if the sites don’t have a notice about disclosure of your bets to others but I would be surprised if it is that broad if there is one.  Given the cost to the three players that got cut, I would think the damages could be significant although I am sure there is a limitation of damages clause.  Problem is that their lawyers don’t reveal when drafting those clauses is that some states prohibit "choice of law” clauses and courts tend to disapprove of clauses that tell them what law to use to interpret a contract. I premise with that because different states interpret language differently so the wording in an agreement that might work in one state might not work in another.  One would easily argue that the agreements you approve (whether the check mark,to move forward is an enforceable agreement) are contracts of adhesion meaning only one side can negotiate the terms.  The courts would tend to interpret any vagueness against the drafter.  Bet any broad disclosure language does not specifically include identifying the person betting, when or where the bet was placed to the person’s employer.   I bet a good lawyer could avoid arbitration with the gambling site and win challenges of the "agreement” language. Makes me almost wonder if Detroit was targeted by the NFL so that if there are legal challenges their gambling partners have a better chance of prevailing.

Then shame on the NFLPA for not getting clear language.  

[NCiggles]

6 minutes ago, The Holy Vagabond said:

I don’t see how anyone can agree Justin Herbert is a better qb than Jalen hurts. 

Well, he's thrown for more than twice as many TD's and almost twice as many yards in his career. He had 1,000 more yards passing last season than Hurts.  The knock on the Chargers has been the coaching.  He would probably look much better if he was on the Eagles.  It's no slight on Hurts to say Herbert is the better passing QB.  These rankings are meaningless.  The only thing that matters is how Hurts performs in the future. 

[LeanMeanGM]

9 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

So Rory McIlroy has been weirdly angry and pissing and moaning about the players that signed with LIV Golf for the last year, and now they all get to play the PGA events anyway after taking millions of dollars to switch tours, while he gets what, a note of thanks from the PGA director? Sweet F all?

Poor Rory

[Mike030270]

 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

11 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I would be fine if NFL players could bet on their own games as long as they bet to win. They just would have to make the information public so the lines are adjusted.  Betting is big business but it's ultimately entertainment.  I think if there's transparency there's little chance that a player wouldn't compete.  Further given the multiple avenues of legal gambling on the sport, it's likely that players do and will continue to bet through surrogates.  Ultimately, there's little or not ability to stop players from wagering through 3rd parties despite rules or policies.  The NFL should just take the opportunity to market players that bet on themselves, make them advertise it and make it a joint venture with the gambling apps.  All of this pretend integrity about it is nonsense.  

I think betting on NFL games has to be an absolute red line because it's a clear risk for corruption. I have no issue with that, I think the rules around betting on other sports are an overreach, and the rules around doing it on NFL premises are an overreach in regulatory terms and data protection terms.

[we_gotta_believe]

24 minutes ago, The Holy Vagabond said:

I don’t see how anyone can agree Justin Herbert is a better qb than Jalen hurts. 

He is though. I've come around on Hurts a whole lot, but Herbert is really talented and I can't put Hurts above him (just yet.) 

[Alphagrand]

14 minutes ago, The Holy Vagabond said:

I don’t see how anyone can agree Justin Herbert is a better qb than Jalen hurts. 

Depends on the criteria you're using for "better QB"

I think most people understand the QB position is heavily reliant on having weapons around them.  Very few NFL QBs can succeed without a bona fide WR1, WR2, and solid TE, not to mention a good OL and running game for support.  Mahomes has succeeded without Tyreek Hill and Rodgers has succeeded without any first round drafted WRs or big FA signings to help, but those guys are a rarity.  Remember when Brady left New England?  It wasn't just because he was tired of Belichick's personality -- the Patriots were scraping the bottom of the barrel for offensive talent, so Brady left for Tampa Bay -- who had a stacked roster waiting for him.

Remember the games when Wentz was throwing to Deontay Burnett, Robert Davis, Joshua Perkins, JJAW, Mack Hollins, etc.?  How good do you think Hurts would have looked with that offense?

Herbert has good (not great) weapons, but has had terrible coaching so far in his career -- although coincidentally, he had Steichen as his OC his rookie year. 

[Outlaw]

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

Could you be more obtuse?

Yes. Yes, he could. And has been.

2 hours ago, just relax said:

I want Jordan Davis to wear 

Can't wear it, but I bet (don't suspend me, Roger) he can put a few of them away in a sitting.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

18 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Poor Rory

I'm not saying he's going to be in the poorhouse, but it's got to be boiling McIlroy's piss that after all the time he's spent taking shots at Mickelson, Reed, Garcia and everyone else, they get to come back after taking tens of millions to switch. 

[Alphagrand]

1 minute ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I'm not saying he's going to be in the poorhouse, but it's got to be boiling McIlroy's piss that after all the time he's spent taking shots at Mickelson, Reed, Garcia and everyone else, they get to come back after taking tens of millions to switch. 

McIlroy gets a fat paycheck every year from the PGA for its Player Impact Program (PIP) -- whatever that is.  Supposedly, it's for bringing attention to the sport.  He's made over $15M in the first 3 years since its inception.  None of these guys are being hard done by.

[Mike030270]

31 minutes ago, The Holy Vagabond said:

I don’t see how anyone can agree Justin Herbert is a better qb than Jalen hurts. 

Herbert is the better passer. It can be argued that Hurts is the better overall because of his rushing

[LeanMeanGM]

10 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I'm not saying he's going to be in the poorhouse, but it's got to be boiling McIlroy's piss that after all the time he's spent taking shots at Mickelson, Reed, Garcia and everyone else, they get to come back after taking tens of millions to switch. 

I'm sure it is for him personally, I just have a hard time feeling sympathetic for some dude who already has somewhere around a quarter of a billion dollars in his mid 30's that made his worth playing a relaxing, non-contact, non-violent sport. 

If only any of us could be so "unfortunate" to have such beyond first world problems. 

[The Holy Vagabond]

Despite having easily worse weapons than Herbert in 2021, hurts lead his team to the playoffs while Herbert did not. Talent doesn’t make a qb good, great, or even bad. Productions, wins, and drives leading to tds/points do. 
 

during that 27 point collapse in the playoffs, for all his "talent”, Herbert did nothing to stop the bleeding vs Jacksonville. Could LA have run the ball more? Yes. Or Herbert could complete a couple passes and get a first down or two with all that supposed talent he has. 

[LeanMeanGM]

It will be interesting to see if Reddick is at OTA's this week. It's a little odd he hasn't been there by all indications of reporters not seeing him and no mention or pictures from the Eagles. It's his home town area and I'm pretty sure he has a house somewhere local as well. He was even doing community service in Camden at the end of April. 

[Iggles_Phan]

11 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

It will be interesting to see if Reddick is at OTA's this week. It's a little odd he hasn't been there by all indications of reporters not seeing him and no mention or pictures from the Eagles. It's his home town area and I'm pretty sure he has a house somewhere local as well. He was even doing community service in Camden at the end of April. 

🤔. Maybe he's starting to work on his hurdling... 

[Mike030270]

31 minutes ago, The Holy Vagabond said:

Despite having easily worse weapons than Herbert in 2021, hurts lead his team to the playoffs while Herbert did not. Talent doesn’t make a qb good, great, or even bad. Productions, wins, and drives leading to tds/points do. 
 

during that 27 point collapse in the playoffs, for all his "talent”, Herbert did nothing to stop the bleeding vs Jacksonville. Could LA have run the ball more? Yes. Or Herbert could complete a couple passes and get a first down or two with all that supposed talent he has. 

Herbert has a tougher division to play in

Herbert has more than twice the passing TDs

[Cochis_Calhoun]

18 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

It will be interesting to see if Reddick is at OTA's this week. It's a little odd he hasn't been there by all indications of reporters not seeing him and no mention or pictures from the Eagles. It's his home town area and I'm pretty sure he has a house somewhere local as well. He was even doing community service in Camden at the end of April. 

Oh wait is there a problem with Reddick?  What did I miss, I struggle to pay that much attention between draft and training camp proper 

[RememberTheKoy]

10 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Oh wait is there a problem with Reddick?  What did I miss, I struggle to pay that much attention between draft and training camp proper 

 

He might be the most underpaid veteran in the league.

[LeanMeanGM]

7 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Oh wait is there a problem with Reddick?  What did I miss, I struggle to pay that much attention between draft and training camp proper 

He's just not at OTA's for some reason. It's not a problem since they are voluntary, and more than likely going to end up a nothing burger, just a bit odd since everyone else is there or has a reason why they aren't. Being Philly is the area he grew up in, bought his mom a house around and lives somewhere near, you'd think he would be there since most of the team is.

[jsb235]

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

McIlroy gets a fat paycheck every year from the PGA for its Player Impact Program (PIP) -- whatever that is.  Supposedly, it's for bringing attention to the sport.  He's made over $15M in the first 3 years since its inception.  None of these guys are being hard done by.

Not a question of Rory not having enough money, it's a question of having to play against guys who took a free $100 million while you were told there would be consequences for taking that money. 

In the end, if Rory and others had jumped ship, it would have wrecked the pga tour. But now, they end up getting a fraction of what the guys will get who did leave. Obviously Rory isn't going broke anytime soon, but how would you feel if you were him? 

[austinfan]

18 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Herbert has a tougher division to play in

Herbert has more than twice the passing TDs

Passing TDs are meaningless with reference to Hurts, who runs in more TDs than the next few QBs combined.

He could get some 2 yard passing TDs, but I think a team lost a SB that way?

[Cochis_Calhoun]

5 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

He might be the most underpaid veteran in the league.

He signed the deal, he must've seen Howie had loaded all the money into his last year (cAp MaGIcIaN).

[Alphagrand]

54 minutes ago, The Holy Vagabond said:

Despite having easily worse weapons than Herbert in 2021, hurts lead his team to the playoffs while Herbert did not. Talent doesn’t make a qb good, great, or even bad. Productions, wins, and drives leading to tds/points do. 
 

during that 27 point collapse in the playoffs, for all his "talent”, Herbert did nothing to stop the bleeding vs Jacksonville. Could LA have run the ball more? Yes. Or Herbert could complete a couple passes and get a first down or two with all that supposed talent he has. 

That's a false characterization IMO.  The Eagles went to the playoffs with Hurts, not because of him nor in spite of him.  He wasn't leading; his QB stats were bottom half of the league in a lot of categories.  2022 is when he took his leap, aided greatly by the acquisition of WR1 AJ Brown and a second year DeVonta Smith.

While ripping Herbert for the Chargers' defensive collapse against JAX, you're conveniently ignoring Hurts' 2021 playoff performance, down 31-0 through 3 quarters against Tampa.

[LeanMeanGM]