2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Brett Brown and Elton Brand...

Its been portrayed as choosing Harris over Butler, but I have always felt it was Simmons over Butler.

It was obvious they were going to extend Harris after the big trade. But I had been saying Simmons was terrible for a few years, and I think a lot of fans were actually coming around on that at the time as well. But he was always Brett Brown's boy. They could have kept Harris, and Butler and let Simmons go. They were already letting Butler play a lot of 1 man because Simmons sucked at it.

Also, while Harris was a bad contract, people always neglected to acknowledge that he got less than the max, so I never felt it was as bad as people made it out to be.

There was also the story about how Butler overheard Brown saying " are we sure we can handle Jimmy Butler" calling him a bad attitude player which insulted Butler. So the story that they never offered him a contract tracks with actual reports. Brett Brown was afraid of his personality (even though he looked like a model teammate with that squad, and the vibes were high), and loved Ben Simmons.

don’t disagree with you on the Simmons point. But they already knew they were bringing back Ben Simmons at that point. Wasn’t just brown. It was also Harris/rubin were close with him too. so Jimmy was never coming back due to that and them making the Harris trade. what they gave up (at the time) and his age put them in that corner. Said it at the time it was always Harris and Simmons. It should’ve been butler but they were never choosing butler and Harris or Simmons and butler.

Harris was pretty close to the max. He took $180 mil compared to $188 mil. that was a bad contract. he was never worth what they paid and kind of forced to do so cause they gave up two 1sts and shamet (good then) so it would’ve looked bad if he just walked. Imo i don’t even think he loved being here either. I actually think he quit by the end hence his 0 point performance in his last game.

I argue horford’s contract was the worse cause it cost you signing better players to fit along side Embiid and Harris. it also cost you a 1st round pick to get rid of him. At least Harris was tradable the last 2 year (especially expiring contract) and the sixers botched that by not trading him at that point to help with their depth or getting future help.

So many different lenses from which to view the final death of the 76ers, IMO, before getting into their veteran musical chairs of failure with Buttler, Harris, Harden, and George.

First, the pro-Embiid (and Maxey) argument. The most important thing is and always has been the draft. The process generated unfathomable draft capital. From 2013 to 2020, they held

#6, #11, #3, #10, #3, #1, #24, #26, #1, #10, #26, #14, #21

And really, ALL they have to show for that is Embiid and Maxey for #3 and #21. So while it's popular to hate Embiid, keep in mind they drafted 3 players at or above his draft status that were totally useless. They just squandered all these resources into absolutely nothing. To Embiid and Maxey's credit, at least they don't suck and have outperformed their draft status. If other decisions were less disastrous, things could have gone differently.

And then the anti-Embiid and Maxey argument. When you stop looking at them as great draft picks and start looking at them as the guys that have to carry the team to a championship, their grade isn't so good. I really don't question Embiid's toughness. His body just can't handle extended NBA games. He is not capable of being a core contributor on a championship run. And Maxey is never going to the central player (not 100% sure he should even be 2a instead of 2b) on a championship winning team.

Time to rebuild.

6 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So many different lenses from which to view the final death of the 76ers, IMO, before getting into their veteran musical chairs of failure with Buttler, Harris, Harden, and George.

First, the pro-Embiid (and Maxey) argument. The most important thing is and always has been the draft. The process generated unfathomable draft capital. From 2013 to 2020, they held

#6, #11, #3, #10, #3, #1, #24, #26, #1, #10, #26, #14, #21

And really, ALL they have to show for that is Embiid and Maxey for #3 and #21. So while it's popular to hate Embiid, keep in mind they drafted 3 players at or above his draft status that were totally useless. They just squandered all these resources into absolutely nothing. To Embiid and Maxey's credit, at least they don't suck and have outperformed their draft status. If other decisions were less disastrous, things could have gone differently.

And then the anti-Embiid and Maxey argument. When you stop looking at them as great draft picks and start looking at them as the guys that have to carry the team to a championship, their grade isn't so good. I really don't question Embiid's toughness. His body just can't handle extended NBA games. He is not capable of being a core contributor on a championship run. And Maxey is never going to the central player (not 100% sure he should even be 2a instead of 2b) on a championship winning team.

Time to rebuild.

Agree with this. Problem is can’t get out of Embiid’s contract. It’s just starting the extension of 3 for $192 mil. Only way is to take back money that equals his as well as likely giving up picks to have a team take on that contract. Rather keep the picks.

Added to this maxey has 3 years left on his deal. After next year it’s 2. If he wants out after next year that is the time to deal him and maximize his value. Don’t want to wait til a year left as less value and potential he could just walk. Especially with this roster construction. Add on if you play his contract out it ends same time as Embiid, he could theoretically leave and you get nothing. Want to keep our own picks

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Agree with this. Problem is can’t get out of Embiid’s contract. It’s just starting the extension of 3 for $192 mil. Only way is to take back money that equals his as well as likely giving up picks to have a team take on that contract. Rather keep the picks.

Added to this maxey has 3 years left on his deal. After next year it’s 2. If he wants out after next year that is the time to deal him and maximize his value. Don’t want to wait til a year left as less value and potential he could just walk. Especially with this roster construction. Add on if you play his contract out it ends same time as Embiid, he could theoretically leave and you get nothing. Want to keep our own picks

I think you trade Maxey at the top of his value. His style...I just don't know that he's built for playoff basketball. He's so much fun to watch and he can drive regular season stats, but you're going to need one of those old school Piston or Spurs teams with 5 outstanding starters if you really want to win a title with Maxey as your 1a or 1b scorer.

So do they keep him in the fold and look to round out that lineup, or do they take the nihilistic approach and say that a player so reliant on elite speed to be effective may be out of his elite window long before they get the lineup where it needs to be? And then how long is it before we are having the same conversation except with Edgecomb instead of Maxey...

Tough to move on from great players, but I don't think they have the resources to get the roster round Maxey that he'd need for a title. So I feel like they might as well wait to get Embiid and George off the books and at least role Maxey into resources for when that happens.

It would be a real shame to let Maxey go before ever handing him the keys to try to lead the team.

Even Iguodala got that shot and he wasn't nearly as good. Then he went and won multiple championships. And it's like, man... if we could have just built a proper team maybe he could have won it here.

Maxey needs a PG and to be a 2 guard. VJ is a 2 as well right now but with work he could become a PG.

Just now, eagle45 said:

I think you trade Maxey at the top of his value. His style...I just don't know that he's built for playoff basketball. He's so much fun to watch and he can drive regular season stats, but you're going to need one of those old school Piston or Spurs teams with 5 outstanding starters if you really want to win a title with Maxey as your 1a or 1b scorer.

So do they keep him in the fold and look to round out that lineup, or do they take the nihilistic approach and say that a player so reliant on elite speed to be effective may be out of his elite window long before they get the lineup where it needs to be? And then how long is it before we are having the same conversation except with Edgecomb instead of Maxey...

Tough to move on from great players, but I don't think they have the resources to get the roster round Maxey that he'd need for a title. So I feel like they might as well wait to get Embiid and George off the books and at least role Maxey into resources for when that happens.

I’ve said this, with how the roster is constructed and how they can maneuver you are basically going to run into being the blazers with Lillard and McCollum. Think vj can be better than McCollum. But unfortunately moving on from PG and Embiid is going to be super difficult to get out. Which hinders the nucleus of the team.

I like Maxey and vj to a good no. 1 alpha type guy on championship team. Issue is hard to get that no. 1 like that.

Imo i think the Maxey situation comes to a head after next year. If Myers is made GM i can totally see him trading Maxey with his value peak with 2 years remaining. Then just letting PG’s contract expire and then eventually letting Embiid’s expire. Essentially when Embiid’s contract falls off you clear a bunch of cap, VJ is up for a rookie extension and you have your own picks, clippers picks and assets from a maxey deal. Myers can build the sixers in his image. You hope he can do what he did with the warriors.

4 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

He could be grinding and driven this offseason training for the upcoming year or he could be off shooting music videos with his girlfriend like Herbert. Funny though how you goof on Hurts for it but would be fawning over Hertbert if here here but shooting music videos during the offseason instead.

Herbert’s grinding plenty with his girlfriend.

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’ve said this, with how the roster is constructed and how they can maneuver you are basically going to run into being the blazers with Lillard and McCollum. Think vj can be better than McCollum. But unfortunately moving on from PG and Embiid is going to be super difficult to get out. Which hinders the nucleus of the team.

I like Maxey and vj to a good no. 1 alpha type guy on championship team. Issue is hard to get that no. 1 like that.

Imo i think the Maxey situation comes to a head after next year. If Myers is made GM i can totally see him trading Maxey with his value peak with 2 years remaining. Then just letting PG’s contract expire and then eventually letting Embiid’s expire. Essentially when Embiid’s contract falls off you clear a bunch of cap, VJ is up for a rookie extension and you have your own picks, clippers picks and assets from a maxey deal. Myers can build the sixers in his image. You hope he can do what he did with the warriors.

That sounds great. I just feel like NBA roster building is more like craps or roulette than the NFL, which is more like architectural blueprints.

Teams try to find their superstar and then the gravitational pull of that star generally brings in other talent as the GM tries to cobble together a bench. It takes quite a bit of dumb luck to get one without the #1 overall pick. And then we have to acknowledge the extreme dumb luck it takes to land the #1 overall pick in a year with a generational talent.

The other way is to get a stacked lineup 1-5 with a quality bench. Might be just as hard to do it that way.

23 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

That sounds great. I just feel like NBA roster building is more like craps or roulette than the NFL, which is more like architectural blueprints.

Teams try to find their superstar and then the gravitational pull of that star generally brings in other talent as the GM tries to cobble together a bench. It takes quite a bit of dumb luck to get one without the #1 overall pick. And then we have to acknowledge the extreme dumb luck it takes to land the #1 overall pick in a year with a generational talent.

The other way is to get a stacked lineup 1-5 with a quality bench. Might be just as hard to do it that way.

It’s even harder with a bad ownership. I have no clue if Hinkie does or doesn’t do a good job. They kind of axed him at a time where he didn’t get to see it through and replaced him with colangelo who really pissed away the cap and assets left to him. Sixers essentially started one plan then nba gets mad at the organization so Harris/Rubin change course and force colangelo into a GM role he didn’t earn or deserve.

Another reality with the sixers is that they never had a consistent plan outside of hinkie’s original tank and then Morey deciding to punt a year to clear cap to get PG.

7 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

It’s even harder with a bad ownership. I have no clue if Hinkie does or doesn’t do a good job. They kind of axed him at a time where he didn’t get to see it through and replaced him with colangelo who really pissed away the cap and assets left to him. Sixers essentially started one plan then nba gets mad at the organization so Harris/Rubin change course and force colangelo into a GM role he didn’t earn or deserve.

Another reality with the sixers is that they never had a consistent plan outside of hinkie’s original tank and then Morey deciding to punt a year to clear cap to get PG.

Bring back Hinkie!

Hurts is going to struggle with under center play action. Qbs that is slow Processing and now has to take his eyes off the defense. The PR is right on schedule, but i am skeptical

59 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Hurts is going to struggle with under center play action. Qbs that is slow Processing and now has to take his eyes off the defense. The PR is right on schedule, but i am skeptical

There's not a ton of thinking in a Shanahan system. It's why it's so QB friendly.

7 minutes ago, RLC said:

There's not a ton of thinking in a Shanahan system. It's why it's so QB friendly.

I would Disagree. Its thinking heavy and less reliant on elite Physical abilities

1 hour ago, CouchKing said:

Bring back Hinkie!

I’ve read that he told Pablo Torres he will never go back to working in the nba. I also think part of that is because the nba basically blackballed him. i believe he hasn’t had an nba job since the Sixers.

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

Hurts is going to struggle with under center play action. Qbs that is slow Processing and now has to take his eyes off the defense. The PR is right on schedule, but i am skeptical

Funny, in the game where they used a bunch of under center play action, Hurts had one of the best games he had last season. What if he thrives instead? Will you be disappointed?

24 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

I would Disagree. Its thinking heavy and less reliant on elite Physical abilities

I think you’re both right. The thinking takes place before the snap - with the play call - and the physical stuff, mainly execution, takes place after. Pass plays tend to one or two-man reads, no more.

Maybe if the best basketball in Philly wasn’t on playgrounds, parks and gyms around town, this would be different. With Maxey’s finger issue, the fans knew the Sixers had no chance regardless of whether Embid played or not.

That’s cheap. He must be falling off.

How many mock schedules have you guys done this offseason?

14 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Maybe if the best basketball in Philly wasn’t on playgrounds, parks and gyms around town, this would be different. With Maxey’s finger issue, the fans knew the Sixers had no chance regardless of whether Embid played or not.

Still BS. Its not a great basketball town. They are front running basketball fans.

Eagles fans show up for a bad team in playoffs.

Plus, the knicks did this to us recently. There should have been more motivation not to let it happen again. Thats an embarrassment.

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Still BS. Its not a great basketball town. They are front running basketball fans.

Eagles fans show up for a bad team in playoffs.

Plus, the knicks did this to us recently. There should have been more motivation not to let it happen again. Thats an embarrassment.

I get both sides of the argument. You aren't wrong...but the team quit and so did the fans. Who in their right mind wanted to go to that game down 0-3? If someone gave me free tickets, I'd have sold them.

53 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

I would Disagree. Its thinking heavy and less reliant on elite Physical abilities

For sure. When it’s humming, it can be point and shoot. But the system isn’t half field reads. It’s progression based. Purdy’s game-winning TD to McCaffrey against us is a great example of when it gets muddied. Hurts has never shown that ability to get to the fourth or fifth read (tbf, most QBs don’t).

In Hurts’ defense, this is the first offseason in his life where he’ll actually major in the under center scheme. It was always used as a small change up in the past.