9 hours ago, paco said:

With Lampkin in, maybe Hurts can see downfield.

You know that's funny as hell, but you might be onto something...

You guys need to stop listening to these Fing loser social media dorks think they’re film gurus. None of them know anything about football. And I’m including Page and Haff in that btw too, not just Peterson who’s the worst of the bunch. Solak is leagues above these guys and Solak isn’t even a former player, but at least Solak was trained. These other dorks one day were like "coaches breaking down film sound so smart… I’m gonna do that too!” It’s the next evolution of Mel Kiper syndrome where everyone started wanting to be a draft geek and sound like Mel Kiper and now everyone wants to be a film geek and social media has just exacerbated this phenomenon

The Eagles need to get back to their personnel roots.

2024 Barkley and 2024 Baun were a beautiful anomaly that won them a Super Bowl. But they don’t redefine a sustainable blueprint. Off ball LB is a read and react position that usually isn’t going to be an elite difference-making, matchup-erasing, turnover-creating difference maker. You really just want someone that isn’t a liability. Likewise, RB is a position that is typically very dependent on the OL, oft-injured, and really sustains year-over-year success. There is a reason the Eagles famously did not invest in these positions while going nuts at edge, OT, WR, etc.

The edges are pretty low on talent right now. WR has depth and they just invested a 1st round pick into a 3rd round talent to address the slot, but they are going to be lacking in play making I there too.

Less RB, less ILB. And don’t go nuts at safety either just because they suck right now. The Eagles haven’t invested a 3rd round pick or higher in a safety that wasn’t a disappointment since Brian Dawkins (or arguably Michael Lewis, but he was kind of rough in coverage). That’s not a position deserving of premium resources unless you find the rare playmaker. Otherwise, like off ball LB, just avoid a liability.

The Eagles have hit some home runs at unusual positions and that really turned the roster construction upside down.

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

They’ll be immeasurably better just by not having Patullo as the OC.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

The Eagles need to get back to their personnel roots.

2024 Barkley and 2024 Baun were a beautiful anomaly that won them a Super Bowl. But they don’t redefine a sustainable blueprint. Off ball LB is a read and react position that usually isn’t going to be an elite difference-making, matchup-erasing, turnover-creating difference maker. You really just want someone that isn’t a liability. Likewise, RB is a position that is typically very dependent on the OL, oft-injured, and really sustains year-over-year success. There is a reason the Eagles famously did not invest in these positions while going nuts at edge, OT, WR, etc.

The edges are pretty low on talent right now. WR has depth and they just invested a 1st round pick into a 3rd round talent to address the slot, but they are going to be lacking in play making I there too.

Less RB, less ILB. And don’t go nuts at safety either just because they suck right now. The Eagles haven’t invested a 3rd round pick or higher in a safety that wasn’t a disappointment since Brian Dawkins (or arguably Michael Lewis, but he was kind of rough in coverage). That’s not a position deserving of premium resources unless you find the rare playmaker. Otherwise, like off ball LB, just avoid a liability.

The Eagles have hit some home runs at unusual positions and that really turned the roster construction upside down.

Barkley was kind of an anomaly as he hit the market and for what you paid him it was worth the value. His extension probably not so much. But I’m guessing when he leaves we are going back to cheaper alternatives and avenues

The linebacker situation probably ties into Fangio and him believing he needs good linebackers to make the system work. Granted it has past two years with Baun and Dean. Curious what they do if Fangio retires. Do they go with hurtt and do his scheme. Or do they turn to a DC like Jim Schwartz which means probably see some roster turnover on defense to fit his scheme.

To your last paragraph, it goes to what I said earlier teams tend stray away from what their identity/philosophy is where they tend to find themselves in more sticky situations. Look at Reid. he was a meat and potatoes guy. He strayed away from the OL and it hurt him the past two years. Imo their OL is better suited now for sustainability and they can run the ball again with Walker who was also an upgrade.

10 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Actually amazing Minnesota is 4-0 being just as bad as us.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

The Eagles need to get back to their personnel roots.

2024 Barkley and 2024 Baun were a beautiful anomaly that won them a Super Bowl. But they don’t redefine a sustainable blueprint. Off ball LB is a read and react position that usually isn’t going to be an elite difference-making, matchup-erasing, turnover-creating difference maker. You really just want someone that isn’t a liability. Likewise, RB is a position that is typically very dependent on the OL, oft-injured, and really sustains year-over-year success. There is a reason the Eagles famously did not invest in these positions while going nuts at edge, OT, WR, etc.

The edges are pretty low on talent right now. WR has depth and they just invested a 1st round pick into a 3rd round talent to address the slot, but they are going to be lacking in play making I there too.

Less RB, less ILB. And don’t go nuts at safety either just because they suck right now. The Eagles haven’t invested a 3rd round pick or higher in a safety that wasn’t a disappointment since Brian Dawkins (or arguably Michael Lewis, but he was kind of rough in coverage). That’s not a position deserving of premium resources unless you find the rare playmaker. Otherwise, like off ball LB, just avoid a liability.

The Eagles have hit some home runs at unusual positions and that really turned the roster construction upside down.

...Guys. Look. I hate to pick on you here E45, but the hindsight pivot here is a little much.

When Howie drafted for need, everyone was like "BUT MORE BPA, WE NEED TO DRAFT BPA!" like it was the strategy that fixed everything.

But now people are frequently saying 'our mistake was that we didn't draft more with need in mind'.

Please make up your damn minds. Again, not specifically at you. Lol.

McLane made a fair point on his pod. More of a wondering out loud than a point, but he said if they hired Mannion to get the Shanahan offense and they already abandoned most of the concepts and the ones they are running are ultra simplistic versions of that offense, what was the point of even hiring Mannion to begin with.

Which is fair to wonder. There’s going to be a story later this year or early 2027 about this past offseason because I’m telling you, that whole offseason felt weird from the start. The OC search, how they lost Stoutland… all of it. Felt like the older Jeff Lurie days where there was dysfunction from within.

41 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

It’s not about me, the Eagles want that. They want their next Andy Reid. I would bet Jeffrey Lurie is pretty over the fact that every other year he’s having to find a new OC because the head coach isn’t a Shanahan or mcvey and isn’t capable of fixing the passing game issues.

I don’t disagree with you. It’s hard to get. But they’re out there. The Jaguars hired one last year in Coen. The raiders hired one this year in kubiak. They’re out there. If you just don’t ever try to find it then you never will find one. Just a point out it’s not like sirianni is killing it lately, they’ve lost 7 out of the last 12 games. He’s at .500 for his last 14 games since last seasons bye week. Last 17 games he’s 9-8. Not exactly hitting it out of the park.

No offense, I want my head coach to be a problem solver. I don’t need him to just be a game manager. Right now he can’t be a problem solver with this offense, because he doesn’t know this offense. It isn’t his background or what he came up with. Lurie and howie want to run an offense like Shanahan, mcvey and lafleur’s. Whether hurts is here or not, they want to run an offense like this. That’s not Sirianni’s background.

So you’re either gonna have to find that OC that’s awesome, which is just as hard to find one that’ll just continuously stay as an assistant. Cause if he turns around this abysmal offense you’re gonna lose him as he will be poached for HC job. So the Eagles will continue to have the same story every other year we’re looking for a new OC. It’s why I think Lurie wants a head coach where he could do problem-solving and be the Xs and O‘s mastermind. Rather than having to continuously, try to find that offensive coordinator and then lose him.

And don’t give me this there’s guys that will stay. Monken wanted to be a HC when the opportunity came. He was there for a while and still wanted to be a HC. Ditto with Arians as an OC to HC. Most of the guys who are so sought still have higher expectations than staying as an offensive coordinator for the rest of their lives.

This is a reasonable take, though I think it's important to underline the risks of this approach. It's true if you never swing, you won't succeed, but I think there's a lot of people in here who will be ****ing like crazy if we swing and miss despite thinking it's so easy. And that's assuming we don't get a 'no thanks' because of Hurts, or because people feel like Lurie and Howie ask too much and get the impression that if they don't get a Reid style program, they'll just be fired.

3 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

McLane made a fair point on his pod. More of a wondering out loud than a point, but he said if they hired Mannion to get the Shanahan offense and they already abandoned most of the concepts and the ones they are running are ultra simplistic versions of that offense, what was the point of even hiring Mannion to begin with.

Which is fair to wonder. There’s going to be a story later this year or early 2027 about this past offseason because I’m telling you, that whole offseason felt weird from the start. The OC search, how they lost Stoutland… all of it. Felt like the older Jeff Lurie days where there was dysfunction from within.

To answer your first question, I think this is the offense they want to run. I think they wanted to see if hurts could be the quarterback and adapt his style play to be able to run it at a highly functional level. They are getting the answer to that.

I also think they wanted to see if their head coach could find a way to mesh his concept with these concepts and make it also functionally work. I think they’re getting an answer to that as well. There’s a realm where neither sirianni nor hurts make it to 2028. Contractually hurts is very likely here in 2027.

4 minutes ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

...Guys. Look. I hate to pick on you here E45, but the hindsight pivot here is a little much.

When Howie drafted for need, everyone was like "BUT MORE BPA, WE NEED TO DRAFT BPA!" like it was the strategy that fixed everything.

But now people are frequently saying 'our mistake was that we didn't draft more with need in mind'.

Please make up your damn minds. Again, not specifically at you. Lol.

I enjoy being picked on. It’s not so much need as it is positional awareness. In my mind, it’s hard for a safety or off ball LB to be the BPA….even if they are a prototypical prospect.

I never once criticized Howie for not touching RB or LB in the draft. I preferred the drafts when they were all DE/WR/OT all the time. If the best player on the board is a RB/LB/safety, then the board sucks.

Posted on March 16 in the offseason blog: (https://www.eaglesmessageboard.com/topic/14333-emb-blog-2026-camps-and-preseason/page/150/#findComment-2327608)

***I think there's really only one question that matters for the 2026 Eagles: was Kevin Patullo THAT bad that his presence as the playcaller and schematic lead completely torpedoed an otherwise very talented would-be successful offense?

Because they are running it back with an offense that will be a year older, one year balder tires, one year more injury prone...probably going to start more OL combos in 2026 than 2025...and probably/maybe minus their leading receiver. All with no material additions.

So the entire chances of a 2025 below average offense not getting incrementally worse and, instead, actually flipping a switch and being GOOD...rest on the premise that Patullo was SO HORRIBLE his mere elimination will springboard the offense to another level.

This just really feels like wishful thinking. I think there are so many warning lights blinking red on this offense right now....***

I’m not trying to prove that I was right or prove that I "know ball.” Honestly could not care less. I post this because I want to understand how anyone with their head screwed on straight could have ever seen it any other way.

24 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

i’m not gonna respond to you anymore. Because every time you do this. You deflect all blame off Sirianni and push it all on other things besides him. Nobody is saying it’s all on him. But acting like he is blameless is BS.

What can he do? That’s the problem. He can’t cause that’s not what he does best. And their other coaches in this league, dealing with injuries, less talented rosters, and a bunch of other stuff. They don’t get as many excuses for it or run through coordinator after coordinator, they eventually get fired.

I don't deflect all blame from anyone, I reject anyone who acts like he's the worst coach in the history of the franchise, because it doesn't make any sense. Of course he's not blameless, he's the head coach, but I'm literally saying I don't see what he's supposed to be able to do with this. Let me put it like this.

I have believed for a long time that Jalen's time to throw, specifically, is a problem. It did not appear to be a problem because he was matched with one of the best OL in the league. But it was always a problem in the making if that OL disappeared. It has disappeared. So when you have a player who has literally in his 7 years shown that he does not handle a sped up offense and relies on running talent around him, and he's not the GM, what is he supposed to be doing about it NOW?

That's what NOTW's post was about, figuring out what to do about it NOW. And I just don't see it happening. You pretty much have to fix Jalen, or the run game, with the worst OL pieces we've had in most of the past 25 years. Do you have ideas for how to make it work, or would you just like to see them at least try? If it's the latter, I can understand that.

1 minute ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

I don't deflect all blame from anyone, I reject anyone who acts like he's the worst coach in the history of the franchise, because it doesn't make any sense. Of course he's not blameless, he's the head coach, but I'm literally saying I don't see what he's supposed to be able to do with this. Let me put it like this.

I have believed for a long time that Jalen's time to throw, specifically, is a problem. It did not appear to be a problem because he was matched with one of the best OL in the league. But it was always a problem in the making if that OL disappeared. It has disappeared. So when you have a player who has literally in his 7 years shown that he does not handle a sped up offense and relies on running talent around him, and he's not the GM, what is he supposed to be doing about it NOW?

That's what NOTW's post was about, figuring out what to do about it NOW. And I just don't see it happening. You pretty much have to fix Jalen, or the run game, with the worst OL pieces we've had in most of the past 25 years. Do you have ideas for how to make it work, or would you just like to see them at least try? If it's the latter, I can understand that.

My point is this the Eagles want to run that type of offense that supposedly mannion was bringing. Which i think both hurts and sirianni prevent him from being able to fully do it. For two different reasons. There are other factors why it won’t work to its full effectiveness which goes to the roster construction but then again usually not going to have a 2024 type of roster or avoid the injury bug like the eagles have done for the better part of sirianni/hurts tenure.

Sirianni does not have the background in that system. Cause he didn’t come up learning it. He has his own. So he doesn’t have the understanding or intricacies to implement it and run it at a high level even if he had another Qb. It’s why mannion a 1st year OC had to hire all his coaches and basically do it and call plays.

If lurie and howie want to run a shanahan/coen/mcvey type offense then imo they need to get rid of him for an HC that has a better understanding and knows how to implement it. As well as move on from hurts because I don’t think hurt can run it either.

9 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’m guessing they believed the drop off at LG to cam wasn’t as steep as Kendall but also the drop off from cam to kendall at center was probably not much or not as much in their eyes. I’d guess they believe at lampkin’s size at G vs jags interior is not what they want. Frankly i don’t think Kendall or lampkins are Gs. Both better suited for center. Ditto with cam but they bought into he played G with Kelce here so has "experience” not that he wasn’t very good at it when he did play there

At some point, it’s worth investing in stability.

2 things I believe to be true:

1. Lampkin is a try-hard popular backup due to his size and tenacity, but he’s not someone you want in the lineup for the future.

2. Kendall is a better fit at center than LG and might actually project there well as a future starter.

If you agree with both, then I would not put Kendall at LG just to get a transiently, marginally better OL with Jurgens/Lampkin at center. That just ensures 2 liabilities instead of potentially one.

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

At some point, it’s worth investing in stability.

2 things I believe to be true:

1. Lampkin is a try-hard popular backup due to his size and tenacity, but he’s not someone you want in the lineup for the future.

2. Kendall is a better fit at center than LG and might actually project there well as a future starter.

If you agree with both, then I would not put Kendall at LG just to get a transiently, marginally better OL with Jurgens/Lampkin at center. That just ensures 2 liabilities instead of potentially one.

I don’t disagree with you but that doesn’t mean our new OL coach does.

I think they hired Mannion b/c Howie and Lurie concluded that the power running game was kaput, that 2024 was history, with 4 all pro linemen and Barkley with Smith, Brown and Goedert coldn't be repeated, that Stoutland wasn't able to coach up 2nd tier guys like he did with Dickinson and Mailata. So they wanted an offensive scheme that didn't require as much raw talent (draft picks and big contracts). Where you schemed big plays instead of relying on pure talent.

However, I think Siri isn't comfortable with the new scheme, so there's a simmering conflict, Siri wants to run the ball but that's not the core of this offense.

There's just some weird disconnect, why are sending Hurts on designed runs? Can't remember last time that worked, teams look for that now and Hurts is a step slower, there's a reason his big runs come out of scrambles when there's open space.

Barkley isn't a zone runner, he's not a great cutback or power runner, compare his style to Bigby or even Shipley, who look better making that one cut then turn upfield - Barkley is always looking for the big play.

Yet they haven't been imaginative getting Barkley the ball in space where he can use his size and speed against the 2nd and 3rd level guys.

They're not moving on from Hurts - to whom? Mckee? Some draft picks (what % of 1st rd QBs become good starters?).

What they need to to get Hurts and Mannion on the same page and figure out an OL. Jurgens has been awful, Steen meh, Kendall learning on the job, Bell still a raw rookie.

Hurts is trying to master a new scheme his HC isn't even committed to installing while running for his life.

Two things happen

1) In a few games, the light goes on, everything clicks, they start moving the ball with the short passing game, long drives mean a rested defense and they go on a roll.

2) Things go to hell, Howie moves out people at the deadline, they rebuild next season and move on from Siri.

27 minutes ago, austinfan said:

They're not moving on from Hurts - to whom? Mckee? Some draft picks (what % of 1st rd QBs become good starters?).

The question is not who, but when. Hurts won’t be the QB here forever, obviously.

Hurts won’t get benched for McKee this year. We’ve learned McKee isn’t good enough to be in that conversation. Next year? If the offense goes to hell and they won’t extend Hurts in the offseason, he might want out himself.

The Eagles are shorthanded as it is in the 2027 draft. I doubt a viable franchise QB will be available to us.

But we all know moving on from a QB has nothing to do with replacement options. There are teams with franchise QBs. There are teams with young rookie contract QBs who they intend to develop as franchise QBs. And then there are teams with temporary QBs…a walking dead QB from whom they have already moved on, even if they still wear the uniform and start under center. And if Hurts doesn’t extend his deal in the offseason, that’s going to be him even if he’s here in 2027.

14 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The question is not who, but when. Hurts won’t be the QB here forever, obviously.

Hurts won’t get benched for McKee this year. We’ve learned McKee isn’t good enough to be in that conversation. Next year? If the offense goes to hell and they won’t extend Hurts in the offseason, he might want out himself.

The Eagles are shorthanded as it is in the 2027 draft. I doubt a viable franchise QB will be available to us.

But we all know moving on from a QB has nothing to do with replacement options. There are teams with franchise QBs. There are teams with young rookie contract QBs who they intend to develop as franchise QBs. And then there are teams with temporary QBs…a walking dead QB from whom they have already moved on, even if they still wear the uniform and start under center. And if Hurts doesn’t extend his deal in the offseason, that’s going to be him even if he’s here in 2027.

Couple of things: hurts is gonna be here in 2027. Cause in order to trade him you’re gonna take on $85 million dead money and a $43 million cap hit if before June 1. So it is very likely that he is here in 2027.

Assuming they are thinking and made a decision to move on down the road but won in 2027 doesn’t mean the wheels won’t be in motion for them setting themselves up for the ability to try to acquire a future quarterback to replace him. They could draft one in the first couple rounds. if they’re real bad this year picking high enough to select one or they could draft one in the second round like they kind of did with hurts when Carson wentz was the starter. They could also wait until 2028 to go and get one where they have two first round picks. Or maybe a proven quarterback gets disgruntled with his organization and wants out. The Eagles have draft to give up to go and get that player.

Imo hurts is not being replaced this year unless he gets injured. He is likely not being replaced next year unless they draft a kid early and hurts is bad in 2027, and they decide we’re just gonna go with the kid he’s ready now to play. But if this offense continues to be putrid then i think the eagles begin planning ways to get their next Qb.

8 hours ago, Lambo said:

Hurts is definitely 1of1. It is quite a long list of QB's who could not accomplish such a feat. #5, Wentz, Vick, Foles, Bradford

This is just because Sirianni is the worst coach in human history, obviously. If Sean Mannion was head coach, we'd be fine. Literally anyone would be better! (I was going to send this like two hours ago and came back to it still sititng here. Whoops. LOL)

36 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The question is not who, but when. Hurts won’t be the QB here forever, obviously.

Hurts won’t get benched for McKee this year. We’ve learned McKee isn’t good enough to be in that conversation. Next year? If the offense goes to hell and they won’t extend Hurts in the offseason, he might want out himself.

The Eagles are shorthanded as it is in the 2027 draft. I doubt a viable franchise QB will be available to us.

But we all know moving on from a QB has nothing to do with replacement options. There are teams with franchise QBs. There are teams with young rookie contract QBs who they intend to develop as franchise QBs. And then there are teams with temporary QBs…a walking dead QB from whom they have already moved on, even if they still wear the uniform and start under center. And if Hurts doesn’t extend his deal in the offseason, that’s going to be him even if he’s here in 2027.

Soooooo. Just a quick thought?

Why exactly did everyone suddenly act like McKee is the worst prospect ever as soon as he didn't have better ball placement than Hurts on every throw? I mean, I don't know if I feel like he's in that conversation either, but Jalen's had games where he threw like McKee vs WAS, and that was with all pro WR, all pro OL, and several years of starts under his belt?

I think the most important thing in that evaluation wasn't anything that McKee did, it's the most important thing he didn't do - showing he'd steal that job decisively from Dalton. I've noticed in football, the way it works for some reason is that it's not enough to be better than the starter, you have to be so much better than the starter as to make the organization give up on the starter regardless of invested resources.

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

My point is this the Eagles want to run that type of offense that supposedly mannion was bringing. Which i think both hurts and sirianni prevent him from being able to fully do it. For two different reasons. There are other factors why it won’t work to its full effectiveness which goes to the roster construction but then again usually not going to have a 2024 type of roster or avoid the injury bug like the eagles have done for the better part of sirianni/hurts tenure.

Sirianni does not have the background in that system. Cause he didn’t come up learning it. He has his own. So he doesn’t have the understanding or intricacies to implement it and run it at a high level even if he had another Qb. It’s why mannion a 1st year OC had to hire all his coaches and basically do it and call plays.

If lurie and howie want to run a shanahan/coen/mcvey type offense then imo they need to get rid of him for an HC that has a better understanding and knows how to implement it. As well as move on from hurts because I don’t think hurt can run it either.

Okay, so when put this way, that's more fair. Objectively, yes, if they are hyper-focused on specifically acquiring a Shanahan/Coen/McVay style offense, then they have to get rid of him, regardless of what he does or does not do. I just think that's a little different than an indictment of him specifically, and more about what they want - similar to how they were single-mindedly focused on acquiring Fangio's type of system.

I really think though that a lot of it is just Hurts being a bad marriage to Sirianni, as well as several (not all) traditional passing offenses. The reason why is really simple, it's not that Hurts is awful or anything, he just has a fatal flaw - his time to delivery is slow among NFL QBs, as he takes time to analyze what's in front of him. I don't think Sirianni ever got a chance with a type of QB here fits his style of system to begin with, and that's a big part of why I disagree with people being so hard on him. It feels like it's driven a lot more by disliking his attitude, and people treat him WAY worse than Chip, who was far FAR worse.

But if these two things are the exclusive goals of the Eagles organization, then yeah, I think regardless of how things turn out, they might not have a choice.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

I enjoy being picked on. It’s not so much need as it is positional awareness. In my mind, it’s hard for a safety or off ball LB to be the BPA….even if they are a prototypical prospect.

I never once criticized Howie for not touching RB or LB in the draft. I preferred the drafts when they were all DE/WR/OT all the time. If the best player on the board is a RB/LB/safety, then the board sucks.

So you're saying basically to do a BPA board, then add weights to different positions based on predicted game impact? So for example if you had Brian Dawkins, but also TJ Watt, then Watt should grade out higher because of his position value comparative to pass rusher?

Sorry for using Watt here, but I tried to think of a post 2000's pass rusher from the Eagles equal to BD's pedigree as a safety, and I blanked, so I just went with Pitt. Lol.