2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Our O-Line isn't bad at all.  The key is health.  IF the line is healthy, they should be very good.  IF the line is healthy, and you use a 1st on a lineman, he's going to be sitting.  We need weapons.  One of the benefits with Hurts is his ability to extend a play, so even if the line play is average he should be able to find an open WR.  The problem is our WR don't get open.  They need to do all that they can to add playmakers around Hurts.

Health and age.  Not arguing we need more skill talent but we also need younger and skilled offensive line.  Driscoll and especially Herbig don't inspire confidence. On day 2 of the draft I'd love to get a Wyatt, Humphrey, Meinerz.  All much better than Herbig and Driscoll.

16 minutes ago, RLC said:

The Eagles clearly traded down because they're not sold on Hurts and want optionality in 2022. If he's the starter, great. If he's not, ok time to pivot. 

There was no Calvin Johnson/Joe Thomas/Chase Young level prospect at #6 that would have been worth not having the optionality in 2022. 

Agreed. I'm probably in the minority here, but I think rolling with Hurts or a free agent QB in 2022 will be the right move as well. Non-elite QBs are as interchangeable as they've ever been; no need hitching your wagon to a 1st round QB just to do it.

Point is , it’s risky business drafting a QB , first , second or third overall

odds are they bust , as will 3 maybe 4  of this years top 5 QBs drafted , IMO 

4 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Point is , it’s risky business drafting a QB , first , second or third overall

odds are they bust , as will 3 maybe 4  of this years top 5 QBs drafted , IMO 

It’s risky business drafting first, second, or third overall.

It means your scouts suck, your team sucks, your coaches either suck or are new at this, and your draft picks are less likely to reach their considerable potential than other, better teams and their less talented picks.

You can say the same thing about nearly every position.

That doesnt mean you just pack up and run away from the pressure of a top 5 pick.

14 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

I don't have the same confidence.  I'd rather draft a top interior OL than hope mediocre guys get good enough to neba notch above mediocre.  

Driscoll is gonna be good. Not just a notch above mediocre.

More often than not , you’re not using a top 3 pick on anything but a QB

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

Driscoll is gonna be good. Not just a notch above mediocre.

I hope so.

31 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Jeremy Schaap

 

@JeremySchaap

 

 

To reiterate, 44 qbs have gone first, second or third overall in the last 50 NFL drafts, and exactly two--Aikman and Peyton--have won Super Bowls starting for the teams that drafted them. That makes selecting qbs up high exceptionally risky

Wow didn't know they were the only 2 in the last 40 years, that's quite a shocking stat.

Think it's shows nfl GMs don't know what they are doing most the time and the draft is really a crap shoot.

I'd like to use that as an excuse for Howie except there is some skill in shooting craps and Howie is really crappy at craps.

NFL Stats

 

@NFL_Stats

·

1m

 

 

In 2013, Luke Kuechly became the youngest player to win DPOY at the age of 22

25 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Point is , it’s risky business drafting a QB , first , second or third overall

odds are they bust , as will 3 maybe 4  of this years top 5 QBs drafted , IMO 

Yup even Mcnabbs draft in 99 was touted as a generational qb draft 

Couch went 1st Mcnabb 2nd Akili Smith 3rd then culpeper 11 and cade Mcknown 12

Couch was ok before getting hurt but to your point he went to a crappy team with a crap supporti g cast and crap coaches.

Mcnabb had the best career out of the 5 and never won a super bowl and isn't a HOF and left the league way before he should of.

Akili Smith busted out in a year.

Culpepper had success being drafted to a stacked offense to a playoff team, the height of his career was short lived and eventually he suffered some injuries and never really developed into a consistent top qb.

Mcnown busted out in a year.

The next qb drafted wasn't until mid 2nd round, shaun king who had better career than Akili and McNown.

Buyer beware with top picked qbs.

34 minutes ago, TEW said:

Seems like a technicality, but OK.

The simple fact is that the same QBs dominate SB wins. They’re all HOF types. The best way to get one of those guys is by drafting them, and you get the pick of the litter drafting at #1. You just have to make sure to take the right guy.

It's a bit skewed by Brady. Take him out of the equation and dominance by HOF types is not a given.

40 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

When you build an elite unit I don't think they subtract any points for you depending on where you got the great players. 

 

It's silly the way people are trying to talk themselves into it being a good thing if the Cowboys draft Pitts just like people tried to talk themselves into it being a good thing that Dallas took CeeDee Lamb. 

It's not a good thing because it takes Pitts off the board, but the larger question is -- what does it do for them?  Dak threw for 4900 yards in 2019 and they were an 8-8 team.  Dak threw for more than 1850 yards in less than 5 games in 2020 and they were a losing team when he went out.  

They're already throwing the ball all over the yard, and they are a losing team with a RB on a $15M per year contract.  What on earth does Pitts do for them that they don't already do?  Your first round pick is supposed to make the team better; Pitts wouldn't even budge the needle for them.

49 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Jeremy Schaap

 

@JeremySchaap

 

 

To reiterate, 44 qbs have gone first, second or third overall in the last 50 NFL drafts, and exactly two--Aikman and Peyton--have won Super Bowls starting for the teams that drafted them. That makes selecting qbs up high exceptionally risky

Elway? Eli, kinda.

Just now, Alphagrand said:

It's not a good thing because it takes Pitts off the board, but the larger question is -- what does it do for them?  Dak threw for 4900 yards in 2019 and they were an 8-8 team.  Dak threw for more than 1850 yards in less than 5 games in 2020 and they were a losing team when he went out.  

They're already throwing the ball all over the yard, and they are a losing team with a RB on a $15M per year contract.  What on earth does Pitts do for them that they don't already do?  Your first round pick is supposed to make the team better; Pitts wouldn't even budge the needle for them.

 

It's silly to say that adding Pitts wouldn't even budge the needle for them.  Of course he makes that team better.  He makes an already really good offense all the better. That's like saying the Nets adding James Harden doesn't move the needle because they can already score with Durant and Kyrie but Harden does nothing to help their bad defense.  

They don't have any sort of threat at TE right now.  Pitts could end up being an all time great with his potential at that position.  Think of it from an Eagles perspective.  How are we going to be able to defense that offense with Pitts in there?  

24 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Wow didn't know they were the only 2 in the last 40 years, that's quite a shocking stat.

Think it's shows nfl GMs don't know what they are doing most the time and the draft is really a crap shoot.

I'd like to use that as an excuse for Howie except there is some skill in shooting craps and Howie is really crappy at craps.

Of course Elway and Eli Manning won Super Bowls but don’t count based on a technicality. 

The Falcons blew a 28-3 lead in the SB so they should have drafted someone else. 

Wentz was playing at an MVP level but got hurt en route to the Eagles winning the title.  

Cam Newton got the Panthers to the SB. 

McNabb got the Eagles to a SB. 

McNair got Titans to a SB. 

Jared Goff got the Rams to a SB.

Steve Young went first overall in the supplemental draft but the Bucs were so bad they nearly ruined him. He went on to be a HoF with SF. 

That’s all in the last 25 or so SBs. 

Drafting a QB high might be risky, but it’s not win a SB or bust with these guys. Many were more than worth the top pick of the draft.

Eagles are rebuilding, that means you don't really care what a player can do in 2021, rather, whether that player is a potential building block for 2023 and forward.

The next two years are about adding and developing talent, not winning, winning will be a byproduct of successful player development.

So the draft board should reflect that reality, and Howie should "Trust the Board."

1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

It's silly to say that adding Pitts wouldn't even budge the needle for them.  Of course he makes that team better.  He makes an already really good offense all the better. That's like saying the Nets adding James Harden doesn't move the needle because they can already score with Durant and Kyrie but Harden does nothing to help their bad defense.  

They don't have any sort of threat at TE right now.  Pitts could end up being an all time great with his potential at that position.  Think of it from an Eagles perspective.  How are we going to be able to defense that offense with Pitts in there?  

A gap blitzes. Hard to complete a pass when you're flat on your back, no matter how good your offense weapons may be.

47 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Agreed. I'm probably in the minority here, but I think rolling with Hurts or a free agent QB in 2022 will be the right move as well. Non-elite QBs are as interchangeable as they've ever been; no need hitching your wagon to a 1st round QB just to do it.

I can agree with this.

Plenty of teams have won super bowls with non first round qbs, Tom Brady of course being the first to come to mind but even excluding tom plenty of teams have gotten good enough qb play out of once scrub qbs and won it all or been to super bowls.

Tampa won with Brad Johnson who was a europe league qb.

Rams of  course had a grocery store bagger backing up Trent green. Warner went onto play in 3 Superbowls winning 1.

Trent Dilfer drafted 6th overall by Tampa who busted out there went on to win a super bowl with the ravens handing the ball off to jamal lewis.

Chris chandler a career journeyman took the falcons to the superbowl.

Rich gannon a career journeyman won mvp with the raiders and played in a super bowl.

Russell wilson drafted 3rd round.

Nick Foles drafted 3rd Round.

Seems to me one has just as much of a chance rolling the dice with a later drafted or vet qb and winning as one does with rolling the dice on a highly drafted qb.

 

 

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

Eagles are rebuilding, that means you don't really care what a player can do in 2021, rather, whether that player is a potential building block for 2023 and forward.

The next two years are about adding and developing talent, not winning, winning will be a byproduct of successful player development.

So the draft board should reflect that reality, and Howie should "Trust the Board."

Then why did Howie sign an old backup QB?

6 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Of course Elway and Eli Manning won Super Bowls but don’t count based on a technicality. 

The Falcons blew a 28-3 lead in the SB so they should have drafted someone else. 

Wentz was playing at an MVP level but got hurt en route to the Eagles winning the title.  

Cam Newton got the Panthers to the SB. 

McNabb got the Eagles to a SB. 

McNair got Titans to a SB. 

Steve Young went first overall in the supplemental draft but the Bucs were so bad they nearly ruined him. He went on to be a HoF with SF. 

That’s all in the last 25 or so SBs. 

Drafting a QB high might be risky, but it’s not win a SB or bust with these guys. Many were more than worth the top pick of the draft.

After I posted I thought wait what about elway and Eli and while technically neither were drafted by the teams they won super bowls for neither played 1 snap for the team that drafted them. So yeah they should be counted in that formula.

16 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Again its not that i promote anarchy. That is your weak minded strawman

govt has certain purposes. But there has to be an roi on investment and services should be paid for by the people that use them. All for toll roads. Keep gas taxes for roads. But thats not what humans tend to do. Bc they are weak minded...like you 

@mattmcginley7

If you want to hand me the fitness trophy we can save everyone some time 

 

Unless it's cardio. I'd rather die

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

Herbig is only 22.  There are lots of guys out there who have no idea how to build and maintain their body.  Just look at Brandon Brooks.  He was soft looking albeit not the fatty Herbig is at the beginning of his career.  Then he started to take care of his body the right way. It's a matter of if he wants to or not.  Hank Fraley was a fat slob too. I think it was Rasul Douglas who was similar.  Yea, he was slim but he had no definition.  He started to work out seriously and got pretty cut up.  I think JJAW needs to do the same.  They guy has no muscle tone There are a lot of guys who don't take training serious even if they are in the NFL.

Disclaimer, sorry for the shirtless dudes, just trying to show that I really think if Herbig wants to, he can transform himself.

I think a lot of it isn't just that guys don't work hard or lazy it's just in college a lot of these kids especially if they are from smaller schools don't have the resources to get in super football shape 

Once in the NFL they have access to fitness trainers and health nutritionists and top notch training facilities and rehab and recovery and far more means knowledge time and access to really get ripped.

I think there was a report that herbig had lost some weight last year and I'd assume the coaches would encourage to slim down even more.

I like herbigs game he just needs to change his body composition to be a more functional mover as an OL be interesting to see if he can.

13 minutes ago, mattmcginley7 said:

If you want to hand me the fitness trophy we can save everyone some time 

 

Unless it's cardio. I'd rather die

Too much cardio is useless anyway.

15 minutes ago, austinfan said:

A gap blitzes. Hard to complete a pass when you're flat on your back, no matter how good your offense weapons may be.

 

You want to Blitz the Cowboys with that offense with Pitts added to it?  Then Dak will just get it out to who is going to be open as a result.  

Pats had a top 5 OL and stunk , no weapons and poor QB play

you need them weapons to win consistently 

27 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I can agree with this.

Plenty of teams have won super bowls with non first round qbs, Tom Brady of course being the first to come to mind but even excluding tom plenty of teams have gotten good enough qb play out of once scrub qbs and won it all or been to super bowls.

Tampa won with Brad Johnson who was a europe league qb.

Rams of  course had a grocery store bagger backing up Trent green. Warner went onto play in 3 Superbowls winning 1.

Trent Dilfer drafted 6th overall by Tampa who busted out there went on to win a super bowl with the ravens handing the ball off to jamal lewis.

Chris chandler a career journeyman took the falcons to the superbowl.

Rich gannon a career journeyman won mvp with the raiders and played in a super bowl.

Russell wilson drafted 3rd round.

Nick Foles drafted 3rd Round.

Seems to me one has just as much of a chance rolling the dice with a later drafted or vet qb and winning as one does with rolling the dice on a highly drafted qb.

 

 

Clutch factor far more important than regular season stats too. I couldn't care less about stats guys with no playoff wins or losing records against winning teams. Find a (relatively) low cost option who can make throws in big time moments, and use your money to load up the roster. If Hurts/potential FA QB can be that guy, then great.