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EMB Blog: 2021 Offseason

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12 minutes ago, TEW said:

Yes, analytics are a tool, but they are there to be used. If you are going an after action report, decision making should absolutely be evaluated, in part, within the context of analytics. If a coach runs when the numbers say pass, you go through the process of why the decision was made. Some decisions that go against the analytics are justified. Weather, matchups, injuries, dynamic performance, etc. are all perfectly reasonable explanations of why a decision might be made against what the numbers say you should do.

I just got done watching an interview with Kapadia, and the way he described the situation in person was a whole lot different than how the article was written. Which is basically what I expected -- sensationalist clickbait that in reality was less witch burning inquisition and more that the coach was annoyed by the process.

Who called it a witch-burning inquisition? The constant second-guessing from a guy who knows roughly 5 percent about the game would wear thin, certainly after a win. Not to mention Lurie telling him who to hire and fire, or which wide receiver bust to draft in round 2. 

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This is a direct quote from a source, not the reporters’ own words regarding those weekly meetings: “(Pederson) was ridiculed and criticized for every decision,” one source told The Athletic. "If you won by three, it wasn’t enough. If you lost on a last-second field goal, you’re the worst coach in history.”

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I don't get the "Lurie isn't a football guy" argument. He has owned the team since 1994, and has watched film, holds lots of meetings with "football people," and has generally immersed himself in the sport. He loves the game and does the work. Plus, he had the stones to put the money on the line to buy the team.

I would bet he knows more about football than 80 percent of the people in the league.

And the people on here thinking they are qualified to give him advice on how to run his team is somewhat hilarious. Sorry, you are a few billion short of the cover charge to that club.

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Hypothetical draft scenario:

Trey Lance drops to #8. Would you give up #12 and #70 to trade up for him?

How about #12, #84 and #150.

Or #12 and our own 2nd rounder in 2022?

According to the NFL pick value chart, all of these trades are fair value, though chances are if he fell that far someone would likely offer a better deal. But just for arguments sake, would you pull the trigger?

I'm beginning to like the idea of a small trade up to grab him if he's available. He's got all the tools -- arm, mobility, and size. From everything I can find he seems to be a good guy off the field and has a great work ethic. Obviously he's extremely raw, so he'd probably hold a clip board for a year. If Hurts has a bad year, you already have your replacement and head into next offseason with 4 picks in the top two rounds and some cap space. If Hurts plays OK, maybe you have a high end backup or maybe you can trade him. If Hurts plays well, you've got a great problem to deal with in figuring out who to trade.

I'm starting to think this is my absolute ideal scenario. He won't make it to #12, but if the other 4 QBs get taken before him and no one offers a mega trade to move up for him, Carolina might be willing to move down a few spots and still get a WR, CB or OT. Obviously a very optimistic scenario, but not one completely out of the realm of possibilities.

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41 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

There is simply no rational reason for Lurie to question Doug on running so much vs GB/Buffalo. How the hell is that even a productive conversation for anyone involved?

In the pod that the article you posted is referencing, Kapadia brought up a good point. Howie needs to step up and tell Lurie to back the hell off because even if Lurie means well and just want to know the decision making behind it, it comes off as second guessing and can irk any coach mid season who constantly deals will media and fans already second guessing their decisions. 

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9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Who called it a witch-burning inquisition? The constant second-guessing from a guy who knows roughly 5 percent about the game would wear thin, certainly after a win. Not to mention Lurie telling him who to hire and fire, or which wide receiver bust to draft in round 2. 

The authors of the article literally called it an "inquisition." Their exact word.

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

This is a direct quote from a source, not the reporters’ own words regarding those weekly meetings: “(Pederson) was ridiculed and criticized for every decision,” one source told The Athletic. "If you won by three, it wasn’t enough. If you lost on a last-second field goal, you’re the worst coach in history.”

Sounds like hyperbole from a second hand source to me.

Does anyone really think Jeffery Lurie is telling his coach he's the worst in history because of losing on a last second field goal? That he marches in there yelling and screaming and degrading Pederson?

Or do we think it's more likely that the conversation went over a series of decisions that caused the last second loss, and that the analytics showed why it could have been prevented?

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6 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I don't get the "Lurie isn't a football guy" argument. He has owned the team since 1994, and has watched film, holds lots of meetings with "football people," and has generally immersed himself in the sport. He loves the game and does the work. Plus, he had the stones to put the money on the line to buy the team.

I would bet he knows more about football than 80 percent of the people in the league.

And the people on here thinking they are qualified to give him advice on how to run his team is somewhat hilarious. Sorry, you are a few billion short of the cover charge to that club.

No chance. 

Just now, TEW said:

The authors of the article literally called it an "inquisition." Their exact word.

Sounds like hyperbole from a second hand source to me.

Does anyone really think Jeffery Lurie is telling his coach he's the worst in history because of losing on a last second field goal? That he marches in there yelling and screaming and degrading Pederson?

Or do we think it's more likely that the conversation went over a series of decisions that caused the last second loss, and that the analytics showed why it could have been prevented?

Did they call it a witch burning inquisition?

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1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

No chance. 

Did they call it a witch burning inquisition?

They literally called it an inquisition.

Having recently just watched an interview with Kap, it's clear that's not how he thinks Lurie treated Pederson. It was sensationalism to cause exactly what is happening now -- a bunch of people talking about their article.

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2 minutes ago, TEW said:

They literally called it an inquisition.

Having recently just watched an interview with Kap, it's clear that's not how he thinks Lurie treated Pederson. It was sensationalism to cause exactly what is happening now -- a bunch of people talking about their article.

Inquisition: a period of prolonged and intensive questioning or investigation.

I think you’re putting way too much power into that word. 

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Just now, schuy7 said:

 

He's not a football guy because if you asked him to draw a few plays up on a board, he would be lost.

I would imagine he could do that, not that this in itself makes him a "football guy."

I mean, the guy has owned an NFL team for a quarter century. He's not dumb. I'm sure he understands football at a reasonably high level.

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2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Inquisition: a period of prolonged and intensive questioning or investigation.

I think you’re putting way too much power into that word. 

We all know the connotation of that word. We all know what quotes they chose to use. And we can all go watch the authors talk about the article. When speaking about the situation live in front of a microphone, they paint a far less dramatic situation.

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2 minutes ago, TEW said:

I would imagine he could do that, not that this in itself makes him a "football guy."

I mean, the guy has owned an NFL team for a quarter century. He's not dumb. I'm sure he understands football at a reasonably high level.

Compared to us? Of course. Compared to Doug Pederson? That’s laughable. 

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1 minute ago, TEW said:

We all know the connotation of that word. We all know what quotes they chose to use. And we can all go watch the authors talk about the article. When speaking about the situation live in front of a microphone, they paint a far less dramatic situation.

They got those quotes from someone, and he himself said these weren’t guys who left that were venting. Clearly those people in the know felt differently than how you’re trying to portray it. 

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4 hours ago, downundermike said:

I am not an Alabama fan in the slightest, but this is a problem.  Why are we not drafting players from the best programs.

 

I blame Siran Stacy. 

4 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

Wasn't there a report too where the Eagles were the one team that didn't show up to Alabama's pro day this year?  

So much of what I want to say in response to this will only get the blog moved down the road of CVON. 

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6 minutes ago, TEW said:

I would imagine he could do that, not that this in itself makes him a "football guy."

I mean, the guy has owned an NFL team for a quarter century. He's not dumb. I'm sure he understands football at a reasonably high level.

Sure, he could draw up Cover 2. Maybe even some passing plays from the WCO. But if he's drawing up individual blocking assignments on all the different run plays, he wouldn't look very good. Does he know which formation alignments are necessary for the defense based on how the OL lines up? I think some people don't realize how much football NFL head coaches know. There's a lot of detail involved.

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1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

They got those quotes from someone, and he himself said these weren’t guys who left that were venting. Clearly those people in the know felt differently than how you’re trying to portray it. 

It's not clear at all. Was it said literally or with hyperbole? You take it literally. I take it as hyperbole.

The actual authors of the article seem to think it wasn't nearly as confrontational or dramatic as that quote or their article made it seem when they speak about the situation live and at length.

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8 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Inquisition: a period of prolonged and intensive questioning or investigation.

I think you’re putting way too much power into that word. 

Amongst Howie’s weaponry are fear, surprise, and almost fanatical devotion to analytics. 

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1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

Amongst Howie’s weaponry are fear, surprise, and almost fanatical devotion to analytics. 

Is that a quote from the article? :lol: 

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2 minutes ago, TEW said:

 

It's not clear at all. Was it said literally or with hyperbole? You take it literally. I take it as hyperbole.

The actual authors of the article seem to think it wasn't nearly as confrontational or dramatic as that quote or their article made it seem when they speak about the situation live and at length.

I didn’t take it as confrontational or dramatic. I’ve said several times though that constant questioning would wear thin, especially over nonsense like "why did you run so much” when the answer is obvious. 

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Whatever analytics told the Eagles to draft Reagor, Hurts, and Taylor last year should be thrown directly into the trash. 😂 

That would be like the Eagles taking Rondale Moore, Kyle Trask, and some developmental LB in the 3rd this year (if we were picking 10-15 spots back of course). 

Seriously, Sheil put it really well in the interview he did on the podcast. It's a failure by Howie Roseman/Jeffrey Lurie to not help bridge the gap between analytics and the coaches/scouts. Embarrassingly bad leadership.

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I don’t intend to defend Lurie, but I don’t care if someone is a football guy.  
 

I played football in HS and sat football as a walk on in college.  I know more about football from jawing with you jackasses than I ever did from playing it.  Sometimes there is an ignorance that comes from primarily experiencing the game at the ground level.

Usually a non football guy GM will have a little more ingenuity than someone who had a 10 year NFL career....not to mention a lack of CTE, which figures to help with the draft board.  
 

 

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Stacking all these things up and it doesn’t paint a great picture of Lurie...

* Wanted to fire Reich after one year in which Agholor, DGB and other bums played wide receiver with a rookie QB. Wentz reportedly saved his job. 

* Had Schwartz lined up to replace Pederson if he got off to a slow start. 

* We won the Super Bowl a few months later. His crowning achievement nearly never happened because of his meddling. 

* His constant poking and prodding and meddling led to Pederson being cool with getting fired. 

* Served as a tie breaker of sorts in drafting JJAW, who was ranked below Parris Campbell.

* Helped opening up the quarterback factory en route to alienating our franchise QB.  

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don’t intend to defend Lurie, but I don’t care if someone is a football guy.  
 

I played football in HS and sat football as a walk on in college.  I know more about football from jawing with you jackasses than I ever did from playing it.  Sometimes there is an ignorance that comes from primarily experiencing the game at the ground level.

Usually a non football guy GM will have a little more ingenuity than someone who had a 10 year NFL career....not to mention a lack of CTE, which figures to help with the draft board.  
 

 

You had some really bad coaches.

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13 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Whatever analytics told the Eagles to draft Reagor, Hurts, and Taylor last year should be thrown directly into the trash. 😂 

That would be like the Eagles taking Rondale Moore, Kyle Trask, and some developmental LB in the 3rd this year (if we were picking 10-15 spots back of course). 

Seriously, Sheil put it really well in the interview he did on the podcast. It's a failure by Howie Roseman/Jeffrey Lurie to not help bridge the gap between analytics and the coaches/scouts. Embarrassing leadership.

Rondale Moore, Jamie Newman and Sage Surratt. FYP

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26 minutes ago, TEW said:

Is that a quote from the article? :lol: 

I mean the headline should be Doug wasn’t expecting an analytics inquisition. 

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I don’t get anyone even remotely trying to defend Lurie here. For the standards that he and his employees ostensibly set for themselves, he has become an abject failure.

Really ever since his divorce. It’s time that he considers moving on to something else.

EDIT: I know people have a tendency to justify decisions their "group” makes but Lurie somehow fired a coach that is likely to become the second or third best coach in NFL history. That’s on him.

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