5 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

It's too bad BOB isn't there anymore, you could probably have traded a 5th rounder and Boston Scott to get Watson. Now, it'll likely take a bit more...

If only BOB was still there could get watson for Jordan Howard and a second (assuming he is found innocent of everything) Lol

17 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Ah yes, we should've taken another WR who dominated defensive tackles in the Big Ten. Good logic!

This seems like an interesting hyperbolic take...  

2012 - Round 6 - Marvin McNutt Iowa.
2006 - Round 5 - Jason Avant Michigan

And that's it for the last 20 years.  I'm not here to tell you that the Big Ten has produced a plethora of talented WRs in the NFL, but the Eagles certainly haven't been seduced into selecting many, and have never spent a high pick on one from the Big Ten.  The closest is Kenny Jackson in 1984, but that was a decade before PSU joined the Big Ten.  So... I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

28 minutes ago, toolg said:

Whether the allegations are true or not... Watson is under investigation. Do you think the Eagles should make a big commitment?

I feel like the team stinks this season anyway. Watson doesn't put them over the hump. They're already invested in Hurts, I want to see what he can do. Then if Watson is cleared, they can take a chance if they want to.

At that point the asking price will be wayyyyyy higher.

1 hour ago, Desertbirds said:

I want no part of Deshaun Watson for the Eagles.

Yep.  Playing out this questionable season with a mediocre QB and three 1st round picks in the next draft is the best path to long term success.  There is no doubt that Watson is a superstar, but we need the picks.

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

This seems like an interesting hyperbolic take...  

2012 - Round 6 - Marvin McNutt Iowa.
2006 - Round 5 - Jason Avant Michigan

And that's it for the last 20 years.  I'm not here to tell you that the Big Ten has produced a plethora of talented WRs in the NFL, but the Eagles certainly haven't been seduced into selecting many, and have never spent a high pick on one from the Big Ten.  The closest is Kenny Jackson in 1984, but that was a decade before PSU joined the Big Ten.  So... I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

I think you missed the prior convo.....Bacarty originally posited that Smith was overrated due to playing against lesser talent. Another poster pointed out the SEC is generally considered the best conference. Another poster listed all the corners Smith went against, some of whom are verrrrry highly regarded. Bacarty then tripled? down on his original assertion by saying those corners are only 1 player of 11 that Smith had to go against. Enter my outlandish statement. 

21 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

First off his record is 28-25 according to pro football reference so i don’t know how you got 29-35. 

second he was 24-13 as a starter heading into 2020. Additionally they went 4-12 this year cause their defense was 32nd in takeaways, 32nd against the run, 27th in points allowed and 24th against the pass. Legitimately as a unit they were barely better than the Cowboys. Their offense wasn’t really the big issue from week 3 onward 

third you want to see improvement from 2019 to 2020. Saw his completion percentage go from 67 to 70. His tds from 26 to 33. And his ints drop from 12 to 7. This was all while Hopkins was dealt for a broken down running back, firing his head coach midseason and the dysfunction that’s the Houston dumpster fire Texans. 

just pointing out Carson’s near mvp season he had 60% completion, 3296 yards, 33 tds and 7 ints and 299 yards rushing. Watson’s 2020 he had 70.2%, 4823 yards, 33 tds, 7 ints and 444 yard rushing with 3 tds. Even if Carson played the last 3 games he doesn’t come close to the yards, completion percentage watson had. Wentz would’ve had more passing Tds and he also had a defense that was good and I’d argue better talent overall on offense then what the Texans had. 

Also Hes 1-2 in the playoffs. It’s his fault the Texans scored 31 against the chiefs and the defense gave up 51 points? Add on their special teams fumbled a kickoff and missed a field goal on top of that. He is at fault too but really one of those losses is the fact the Texans defense and special teams imploded after being up 24-7 

Oh, I know there's A LOT more to it than the basic information that I posted and I know that it takes more than a quarterback to win a game.  Was just saying that I think he's being overrated in all of these trade talks and I have no interest in giving up 3 1st round picks for him.

That DK Metcalf 100 is insane.  Howie, WTF?

Just now, bpac55 said:

Oh, I know there's A LOT more to it than the basic information that I posted and I know that it takes more than a quarterback to win a game.  Was just saying that I think he's being overrated in all of these trade talks and I have no interest in giving up 3 1st round picks for him.

I guess the question becomes, at what point is the value right to trade for him? A 1st and a 3rd? I doubt they do that, but maybe if Mills shows out. 2 1sts, plus a 4th? 3rd? Ehhh it's maybe more than I would want to give up. 3 1sts, yah, no thanks at all. 

I think it really also depends on how the team does this year. If Smith and Reagor look like a good WR pairing, and Goedert plays up to his potential, I think it'll be a bit more palatable for the fans to understand a trade to get us back in the franchise QB race. 

49 minutes ago, greend said:

Because he's good and I think the lawsuits  are bogus

He put up some incredible numbers last year....but if you trade for him, you have to pay him huge money and give up huge draft capital.  

It's just so much easier for the whole process to get it right with a 22 year old in the draft.  I realize that's more of a crap shoot, but paying a ransom for a vet via trade doesn't often end well.

1 hour ago, RLC said:

Yup. He only played against *check notes*

• Derek Stingley
• Kelvin Joseph
• Kaiir Elam
• Jaycee Horn
• Noah Igbinoghene
• Eric Stokes
• Tyson Campbell

Right? 

What a clown.

8 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

That DK Metcalf 100 is insane.  Howie, WTF?

Metcalf did not run fast enough to qualify for the Olympic trial.  Will JJAW race him in a 100m match?  

12 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I guess the question becomes, at what point is the value right to trade for him? A 1st and a 3rd? I doubt they do that, but maybe if Mills shows out. 2 1sts, plus a 4th? 3rd? Ehhh it's maybe more than I would want to give up. 3 1sts, yah, no thanks at all. 

I think it really also depends on how the team does this year. If Smith and Reagor look like a good WR pairing, and Goedert plays up to his potential, I think it'll be a bit more palatable for the fans to understand a trade to get us back in the franchise QB race. 

Then you have to look at salary, fitting him under the cap while filling holes and bringing other guys back.  Goedert, Mailata, Sweat, Barnett and possibly Sanders all need new contracts.  You can bet they are going to spend at CB, S and DL next year in FA as well.  Bringing in Watson really handcuffs what you can do. 

5 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Then you have to look at salary, fitting him under the cap while filling holes and bringing other guys back.  Goedert, Mailata, Sweat, Barnett and possibly Sanders all need new contracts.  You can bet they are going to spend at CB, S and DL next year in FA as well.  Bringing in Watson really handcuffs what you can do. 

Not saying hurts is or isn’t the answer cause we don’t have that answer yet, but if he doesn’t show that this year you don’t think having a giant hole at QB doesn’t handcuff what you can do? i understand you don’t love the idea of paying a QB that type of money cause it handcuff’s your ability to do other things but if hurts fails (we have no clue either way at the moment) that also handcuffs you as you’d have no QB. I much rather be handcuff having a top 10 QB (assuming all his legal issues are gone) then handcuff by no QB and hoping we draft the right one which is an inexact science 

the king article is talking about watson in 2022. By that time we’ll know what hurts is or isn’t. You hope he’s really good so it’s an easy decision to move forward with him. But if he’s not and Watson’s league troubles are found to be bogus or cleared I’m all for watson. 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not saying hurts is or isn’t the answer cause we don’t have that answer yet, but if he doesn’t show that this year you don’t think having a giant hole at QB doesn’t handcuff what you can do? i understand you don’t love the idea of paying a QB that type of money cause it handcuff’s your ability to do other things but if hurts fails (we have no clue either way at the moment) that also handcuffs you as you’d have no QB. I much rather be handcuff having a top 10 QB (assuming all his legal issues are gone) then handcuff by no QB and hoping we draft the right one which is an inexact science 

I tend to agree with you on this more than I do with @bpac55. The other thing is, with the guys listed as needing new contracts....Goedert needs to show he can stay healthy. Otherwise, I wouldn't want to give him any significant money, unless it was tied to snap counts/playing time. Too much risk for a guy that is often hurt. Mailata, if he continues his trajectory is of course a guy you want to bring back. Sweat/Barnett are interesting....of course depending on money, you'd like them both. Sweat moreso as I think he'll command less money and potentially reward you with more sacks. Health obviously a question there. Barnett....I like some of the stuff he does/brings....but he's such a goddamn moron, it makes it so hard to cheer for him. I would loathe him if he was on any other team I think.

Sanders....I really don't want to give him big money, at all. Health again, but I think he's in that "2nd tier" of RBs in the league. He's certainly a playmaker which we lack, but I'd be fine if they don't pay him a huge contract when the time comes. 

20 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

He put up some incredible numbers last year....but if you trade for him, you have to pay him huge money and give up huge draft capital.  

It's just so much easier for the whole process to get it right with a 22 year old in the draft.  I realize that's more of a crap shoot, but paying a ransom for a vet via trade doesn't often end well.

Under the assumption you draft the right QB. You could wind up just as easily drafting Trubisky, Winston or mariota or even worse and be stuck in purgatory where then you’ve wasted years as well. I rather take my chances with watson as a top 10 QB with the cap about to increase by a lot over the next 2-4 years due to the new tv deals. 

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not saying hurts is or isn’t the answer cause we don’t have that answer yet, but if he doesn’t show that this year you don’t think having a giant hole at QB doesn’t handcuff what you can do? i understand you don’t love the idea of paying a QB that type of money cause it handcuff’s your ability to do other things but if hurts fails (we have no clue either way at the moment) that also handcuffs you as you’d have no QB. I much rather be handcuff having a top 10 QB (assuming all his legal issues are gone) then handcuff by no QB and hoping we draft the right one which is an inexact science 

the king article is talking about watson in 2022. By that time we’ll know what hurts is or isn’t. You hope he’s really good so it’s an easy decision to move forward with him. But if he’s not and Watson’s league troubles are found to be bogus or cleared I’m all for watson. 

I think you can go either way with it.  If Hurts fails then we are most likely looking at a top 5 maybe even top 3 pick in the 2022 draft.  Who knows how the college season is going to play out.  We could see Howell, Rattler, Slovis or an unknown just take a huge step and become a can't miss QB prospect.   Then you're in perfect position to get on of those guys.  

There are so many ifs that go in to this equation.  

13 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I tend to agree with you on this more than I do with @bpac55. The other thing is, with the guys listed as needing new contracts....Goedert needs to show he can stay healthy. Otherwise, I wouldn't want to give him any significant money, unless it was tied to snap counts/playing time. Too much risk for a guy that is often hurt. Mailata, if he continues his trajectory is of course a guy you want to bring back. Sweat/Barnett are interesting....of course depending on money, you'd like them both. Sweat moreso as I think he'll command less money and potentially reward you with more sacks. Health obviously a question there. Barnett....I like some of the stuff he does/brings....but he's such a goddamn moron, it makes it so hard to cheer for him. I would loathe him if he was on any other team I think.

Sanders....I really don't want to give him big money, at all. Health again, but I think he's in that "2nd tier" of RBs in the league. He's certainly a playmaker which we lack, but I'd be fine if they don't pay him a huge contract when the time comes. 

I have a feeling goedert is going to ask for more than what he’s worth tbh. He has missed time every year so far in his career. And imo this upcoming year he needs to make a big jump for me to pay him like i believe the FA market is going to bare out. I’d ideally like to get a deal done but if I’m goedert’s agent unless I’m getting close to what i want i try to ball out this year and use being so close to FA to my advantage. If he does he’s basically where vinny curry was that one year that he was headed into FA. 

mailata if he continues to improve likely gets something similar to what vaitai got in FA. 

Unless barnett blows up this year i think he’s gone. I don’t think they want to pay him if he is just a solid player. Use the money elsewhere. I do agree think sweat is back. 

sanders is going to be a curious case. Howie and the eagles paid mccoy when the time came. I’m betting they do but second contracts with running backs that get paid big money is such a hit or miss proposition and he has some durability concerns. 

I look at it this way. I think the eagles are a 6-7 win team. So likely picking 7-10 area. Meaning you are likely going to have to trade up capital to get the QB you like if hurts isn’t what they wanted. So you likely giving up at least another first to get an unproven rookie QB on a rookie contract. Or your option is watson who’s a proven top 10 QB making a lot of money but with the cap going up due to new tv money. 

32 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

He put up some incredible numbers last year....but if you trade for him, you have to pay him huge money and give up huge draft capital.  

It's just so much easier for the whole process to get it right with a 22 year old in the draft.  I realize that's more of a crap shoot, but paying a ransom for a vet via trade doesn't often end well.

Look, the way we draft I'll trade the draft picks

46 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Yep.  Playing out this questionable season with a mediocre QB and three 1st round picks in the next draft is the best path to long term success.  There is no doubt that Watson is a superstar, but we need the picks.

Need them and then waste them

6 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I think you can go either way with it.  If Hurts fails then we are most likely looking at a top 5 maybe even top 3 pick in the 2022 draft.  Who knows how the college season is going to play out.  We could see Howell, Rattler, Slovis or an unknown just take a huge step and become a can't miss QB prospect.   Then you're in perfect position to get on of those guys.  

There are so many ifs that go in to this equation.  

I don’t think it’s necessarily true if hurts fails you are picking top 5. That’s untrue definitive statement. They could be 6-11 picking at 7 next year and have to move up and give up firsts to get the QB they love and that’s if a team picking ahead is willing to move back and doesn’t need a QB either. They were 4-11-1 picking 6th and according to reports wanted Wilson but couldn’t move up. That very well could happen again. 

Watson has great counting stats, but something is missing.

2020:  12th in QBR

2019:  7th in QBR

2018:  15th in QBR

I like QBR much better than QB rating, because you can put up nice stats by holding the ball too long and taking needless sacks (i.e., you'll complete more passes for more yards per attempt, b/c sacks aren't included in attempts). Given he has an all pro LT the last two years, and a number of other high draft picks on that OL, the high sack rate is more on him than his OL.

Watson isn't an elite QB:

Mahomes, ranking 1, 2, 5

Brees, 2, 3, 6

Jackson 22, 1, 7 (not much of a QB, but makes things happen)

Brady 6, 17, 9

Wilson 11, 5, 8

 

Rodgers, 17, 20, 1

Ryan, 9, 14, 16

Ben 4, ---, 22

 

Allen 25, 25, 3

Dak 18, 4, ---

Wentz, 12, 11, 28

Carr 28, 10, 11

Cousins, 15, 13, 18

Stafford 23, 6, 15

Goff 10, 23, 23

Jones ---, 18, 20

Trubisky, 3, 30, 21

Darnold, 29, 26, 33

 

Dalton 16, 29, 25

Newton 20, ---, 30

Winston 8, 16, ---

Flacco, 19, 22, ---

Rivers 7, 24, 19

 

I hope we get Watson just so some people have to reverse their position on him

8 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Watson has great counting stats, but something is missing.

2020:  12th in QBR

2019:  7th in QBR

2018:  15th in QBR

I like QBR much better than QB rating, because you can put up nice stats by holding the ball too long and taking needless sacks (i.e., you'll complete more passes for more yards per attempt, b/c sacks aren't included in attempts). Given he has an all pro LT the last two years, and a number of other high draft picks on that OL, the high sack rate is more on him than his OL.

Watson isn't an elite QB:

 

 

@austinfan I think you could admit that "elite QB" is a superfluous definition. Everybody will have different standards of what that means, and how "their guy" fits or doesn't fit into it. QBR is better than QB rating, but both still have inherent flaws. I think a better way of looking at things is comparatively to other QBs. Are there 9 QBs you'd rather have right now (not taking into account off field issues for the sake of discussion) than Watson? 

7 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I have a feeling goedert is going to ask for more than what he’s worth tbh. He has missed time every year so far in his career. And imo this upcoming year he needs to make a big jump for me to pay him like i believe the FA market is going to bare out. I’d ideally like to get a deal done but if I’m goedert’s agent unless I’m getting close to what i want i try to ball out this year and use being so close to FA to my advantage. If he does he’s basically where vinny curry was that one year that he was headed into FA. 

mailata if he continues to improve likely gets something similar to what vaitai got in FA. 

Unless barnett blows up this year i think he’s gone. I don’t think they want to pay him if he is just a solid player. Use the money elsewhere. I do agree think sweat is back. 

sanders is going to be a curious case. Howie and the eagles paid mccoy when the time came. I’m betting they do but second contracts with running backs that get paid big money is such a hit or miss proposition and he has some durability concerns. 

I look at it this way. I think the eagles are a 6-7 win team. So likely picking 7-10 area. Meaning you are likely going to have to trade up capital to get the QB you like if hurts isn’t what they wanted. So you likely giving up at least another first to get an unproven rookie QB on a rookie contract. Or your option is watson who’s a proven top 10 QB making a lot of money but with the cap going up due to new tv money. 

Agree on DG.  It's why I was hoping there could have been a Hayden Hurst draft day trade for him.  Side note, did any players get traded during the draft this year?  I can't think of any.

Barnett is not worth the going rate so I agree, I think he's gone.

Agree on Mailata's value and that's what he should get.

I think Sanders gets a 2nd contract here given his age and the rotation that might be used.

That mindset if we are if we are in the 7-10 range makes sense.  

I'm just hoping Hurts works out.  With so many holes on the team it's nice to think of adding 3 blue chip players to a team lacking so much talent.

I’d rather keep the picks than trade for Watson

 

Also....he’d have to want to come here lol