9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That is absolutely not a straw man argument, but rather a paraphrase of afan's sweeping the salary cap mess Howie created under the rug.   Disagree with that if you want, but that's what he's said.  We don't need to sign anyone of significance until 2023, thereby making 2021 and 2022 throw away years where the team won't be ready to compete, because the roster has been mismanaged.

I thought you were responding to the discussion in here today. Afans take as you’ve laid out, I don’t agree with 

3 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Smith looks thinner than I imagined , hopefully he can add a cpl pounds 

On the other hand.  Dickerson is out there with hardly a sleeve on his knee looking like a house.

 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No.  I am dealing with the full picture which is cap compliance for the 2021 season.

Ok, but that wasn't the discussion. the discussion was "how much will it cost to sign our rookies," and the answer given was $10 million, when the real number is $3.6 million.

Regardless of what else happens, the cap charge for our rookie class will be $3.6 million. That won't change.

If you want to have a discussion about the salary cap, fine. But I don't want to have one, so if you want to have it by yourself, you can do that without quoting me and telling me how I am the one who doesn't understand it.

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No.  I am dealing with the full picture which is cap compliance for the 2021 season.  You can't ignore the salaries of the players outside the top 51 just because its convenient to an argument.  The salaries of all players will count.  For example, if Dickerson starts on the PUP list, or IR because he's still recovering from the knee injury before he was drafted, then that removes him from the 53 man roster, but that money on his salary still counts against the full cap as he sits on PUP or IR, and one of the others behind Dickerson's money would then be added to the 'rookie pool' number.  Or, if they decide to stash another late round pick on IR... like the 5th round DT who was not exactly positive about his health when asked about it right after the draft... then his money also counts against the cap, and increases the 'rookie pool'.

 

Looking at it in terms of only the top 51 is short-sighted.  And the fact that this team is that close to the ceiling would indicate that the salary cap is a problem.  Maybe not insurmountable, but definitely not a good situation.   This team usually likes to have a reserve for in-season injuries.  They likely won't have much at all.  This team likes to roll money over to future years... they will be rolling over nickels and dimes.  

Dude....the net impact of the rookies will be $3.6M.  One day we'll have X million in cap space and then have $3.6M less after signing the rookies.  That's it. 

Although consequential, you're dragging in other stuff.

 

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

I thought you were responding to the discussion in here today. Afans take as you’ve laid out, I don’t agree with 

No, I'm referring to all the Howie supporters that have come to defense (none louder than afan) to point to why the problems that we see are not in fact problems  or aren't important anyway because of how bad the team is.  (which, of course, would also fall on the shoulders of the GM, if people were held accountable for their job titles and what the responsibilities are for the person with that job title.)

14 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

WTF (not the football team in DC) is the point of that drill?  

Camp. Body.

1 hour ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

 

If this football thing doesn't work out, Smith could have a promising career as a goal line pylon.

Any word on why Williams isn't there 

10 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Regardless of what else happens, the cap charge for our rookie class will be $3.6 million. That won't change.

That is false.   The cap charge is 13.747 million.  The cap impact against the top 51 formula is 3.6 million.

1 minute ago, Desertbirds said:

If this football thing doesn't work out, Smith could have a promising career as a goal line pylon.

There are women out there who would kill to be so skinny .

kidding aside , he plays much bigger , hopefully it translates to the NFL

3 minutes ago, Michaels maniacs said:

Any word on why Williams isn't there 

Really, you have to ask. This is the Philadelphia Eagles, he is obviously hurt.

2 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

There are women out there who would kill to be so skinny .

kidding aside , he plays much bigger , hopefully it translates to the NFL

I don't know about you, but I don't like my chicks or my WR's that skinny.

1 minute ago, jsb235 said:

Ok, but that wasn't the discussion. the discussion was "how much will it cost to sign our rookies," and the answer given was $10 million, when the real number is $3.6 million.

Regardless of what else happens, the cap charge for our rookie class will be $3.6 million. That won't change.

If you want to have a discussion about the salary cap, fine. But I don't want to have one, so if you want to have it by yourself, you can do that without quoting me and telling me how I am the one who doesn't understand it.

How much it costs to sign our rookies includes those on the PS, IR, PUP, and those inconvenient 2 extra roster spots.   The 'real' number is not $3.6M.  The 'real' number is $3.6M PLUS the final 2 roster spots on the 53 (at a minimum), which adds about another $1.6M... bringing that total up to about $5.2M.   

 

It is convenient how you don't want to have a discussion about the salary cap, while engaging with someone about the salary cap.  You had part of the picture, because the guy you were using as your source on the matter only provided a part of the picture (likely because he also doesn't understand all the inter workings).  Only those in the NFL really understand all of it... and even then, some in the NFL likely are missing loop holes.   But, you decided to gloat over downundermike about how you had the proper facts of what it would really cost, because of one article from Kempski.   But, as soon as someone pushes back on that with the whole story, all of a sudden, you don't want to have that conversation.   The salary cap isn't about the top 51.  It is about the 53, IR, PUP, and PS.  So, being 'under' with just the top 51 doesn't mean anything.  Ultimately, by the end of the Preseason, teams have to get ALL of those other players to fit in under the salary cap too. There are phases to cap compliance.  Day 1 of the league year, it's only about the top 51.  That remains in place throughout the entire offseason, and they can maneuver and work things with just the top 51.  But, once the games count, things get much tighter and that loop hole closes.  Then it all counts, including the signing bonuses for the UDFAs that ended up just being camp fodder.   In other words, the $3.6M number is too small and it will go up once the first day of the season comes around... which is when everything actually matters.

4 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

If this football thing doesn't work out, Smith could have a promising career as a goal line pylon.

Too thin

38 minutes ago, Michaels maniacs said:

Where's milton

Storage B

10 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Dude....the net impact of the rookies will be $3.6M.  One day we'll have X million in cap space and then have $3.6M less after signing the rookies.  That's it. 

Although consequential, you're dragging in other stuff.

 

The net impact of the rookies will be higher than $3.6M, because all that other stuff matters.  Its not about the top 51... that's just there for teams to maneuver leading up to the season.   At the start of the regular season, the net impact of the rookies will be higher than $3.6M.  

40 minutes ago, Michaels maniacs said:

Where's milton

Hanging with Donahoe.

1 minute ago, Original Sin said:

There are women out there who would kill to be so skinny .

kidding aside , he plays much bigger , hopefully it translates to the NFL

I know there is a phrase regarding CB play that describes keeping the receiver in your hip pocket.

I never before thought this could be taken literally.

6 minutes ago, Michaels maniacs said:

Any word on why Williams isn't there 

Who said he isn’t there?

3 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Hanging with Donahoe.

That hit me right in the funny bone.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The net impact of the rookies will be higher than $3.6M, because all that other stuff matters.  Its not about the top 51... that's just there for teams to maneuver leading up to the season.   At the start of the regular season, the net impact of the rookies will be higher than $3.6M.  

We are answering different questions.

You are right.  But that doesn't mean everyone else is wrong.

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It is convenient how you don't want to have a discussion about the salary cap, while engaging with someone about the salary cap. 

No, I was just correcting someone who mistakenly thought the impact on the salary cap to sign the draft class would be $10 million, when the real number is, and remains, $3.6 million.

 

What time is Nick on?

Re: Williams

Isn’t La Tech a quarters school and thus the players can’t make rookie camp.