RememberTheKoy Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 57 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said: Maybe bring up the highlights of the season before when he was with us. Seams to be some really good runs in there. Its all about scheme fit and yes the oline blocking for you. One misconception is Jordan is a power back. He is not. Hes a one cut back. Again Scheme. Those highlights are from 2019 which was injuries ago for a now washed Jordan Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerTime Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 15 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said: 66% competition, 4,000 passing yards, 26 passing TD's. Only 1 QB in Eagles history has ever thrown for 4000 yards. It only happened once. 63.9 comp% and 27tds that year on 607 throws. In order for Hurts to be good his floor has to be Wentz’ best season in your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEFly Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 2 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said: So? I can show a video of Greg Ward getting some first downs and scoring TD’s, it doesn’t make him a good receiver. There were a lot more tackles where he lost yardage than positive plays. Nope, it’s his hands, body control and route running that make Ward a good receiver. I just need deeper routes and some YAC from him to be more than a depth WR. Will be interesting to see what the combination of Hurts, especially with all that offseason working together, and Sirianni do for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEFly Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, DeathByEagle said: Maybe bring up the highlights of the season before when he was with us. Seams to be some really good runs in there. Its all about scheme fit and yes the oline blocking for you. One misconception is Jordan is a power back. He is not. Hes a one cut back. Again Scheme. He doesn’t power through the hole, he skinnies through it. I mentioned that when comparing him to Kerryon, who used to burst but runs so upright he gets hit and brought down. In contrast, Howard shrinks in the hole (puts his pads down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanMeanGM Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, MillerTime said: Only 1 QB in Eagles history has ever thrown for 4000 yards. It only happened once. 63.9 comp% and 27tds that year on 607 throws. In order for Hurts to be successful his floor has to be Wentz’ best season in your eyes. There's 17 games now. Even with Wentz worst season last year he was on pace for 3,700 yards for 17 games. There were 12 QB's who passed for more than 4,000 yards last year playing in only 15 or 16 games. If you expand to 17 games, likely 5 more break 4,000 yards including Teddy Bridgewater. If half the league can do it, yes, I expect him to be a part of that half. Hitting 4,000 isn't that hard anymore. Wentz did it with absolute trash at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEFly Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, ManuManu said: How much cap space can we expect to roll over? We’ll have like $5M after signing our rookies. That won’t cover our dead cap next year. It’s closer to $4 million. Really, in this rookie wage scale NFL, only the first three rounders count against the initial year cap because the other rookies cost less than the vet minimum of the players likely to be supplanted on the roster. June 1 and the ability to spend the Jackson and Jeffery cut money gave the Eagles more than enough to sign the rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCiggles Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 9 hours ago, Utebird said: No one is saying he isn't a good receiver and he wasnt an intregal part of the offense and the super bowl, the topic was about his Blocking which is and always has been horrendous. As for him not getting crap why shouldn't he? Dude didn't get a new contract so he mailed it in like a punk.👎 His play was bad but I don't think he would mail it in if he's playing for a new contract elsewhere. I think he just had a bad season. He dealt with an injury. The QB play and offensive game plans stunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEFly Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 47 minutes ago, Utebird said: I'll wait and see with howard, fortunately for him his injuries have been more upper body than lower body yet he's still been injury prone. Something that limits Howard is he's kind of a one note back, he doesn't have the speed to get around the corner or bounce it outside, nor is he much of a threat as a receiver, defense knows when hes in the game he's either pass blocking or running between the tackles and when he does he's not a threat to break a big run either as he lacks burst as well. I have low expectations for Howard so we'll see. That was a heck of a stinger and I thought it affected his lowering his pads in Miami. Face it, with Sanders banged up and Howard available on the PS and roster, the Eagles went with Scott and a dose of Huntley last year and Holyfield never saw the field. Howard has to run like he did pre stinger or his career is over. If, and that’s a numbers game, the Eagles keep four RBs, that fourth position will come from a TC battle or a cut pick up. None of those backs is guaranteed a spot. 38 minutes ago, Swoop said: Curious, because I've seen people throw numbers out there. What would he considered a "good" season by Hurts for some of you? Genuinely curious. All pro and Super Bowl MVP. (Sarcasm intended). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerTime Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said: There's 17 games now. Even with Wentz worst season last year he was on pace for 3,700 yards for 17 games. There were 12 QB's who passed for more than 4,000 yards last year playing in only 15 or 16 games. If you expand to 17 games, likely 5 more break 4,000 yards including Teddy Bridgewater. If half the league can do it, yes, I expect him to be a part of that half. Hitting 4,000 isn't that hard anymore. Wentz did it with absolute trash at WR. The extra game is a fair point. Wentz did it barely by throwing the ball 607 times though. Hurts would have to have the best season in Eagles history on a 16 game season to hit those numbers. But I did forget about the 17th game so those are fair numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoEagle Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said: You're basing this on a troubled past. Cinncy, Jags, Cards and the Jets all are totally different ship. Just like Howie, who we deemed god 3 years ago now looks like dog poop. This is a what have you done for me lately league and I'll be whatever you want the Jets, jags and Cinncy have more wins than the eagles in 3 years. What have you done for me lately? Jets/Jags/Cincy have a combined record of 13-35, 12-36, and 12-35-1, respectively, with a combined total of 37-106-1 over the last 3 years. The Eagles last 3 years are 22-25-1. So lately the Eagles are still better. Even last year, the Eagles had a better record than all 3, tho tied with Cincy. If you wanna bet those 3 teams have more wins than the Eagles the next 3 years, I would hope so, as 3 teams totals should outpace one teams. How can you declare those three teams are totally different now? New coaching staffs, new players, same terrible ownership, which can certainly be said of the Eagles, yet, those three teams are different because.....why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoEagle Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, MillerTime said: The extra game is a fair point. Wentz did it barely by throwing the ball 607 times though. Hurts would have to have the best season in Eagles history on a 16 game season to hit those numbers. But I did forget about the 17th game so those are fair numbers. Let's break this out. 4000 yards / 16 games = 250 yards/game 4000 / 17 = 235 yards per game Honestly, if your starting QB doesn't get to 4000 AND plays all 17 games, you have big time problems, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 15 minutes ago, NCiggles said: His play was bad but I don't think he would mail it in if he's playing for a new contract elsewhere. I think he just had a bad season. He dealt with an injury. The QB play and offensive game plans stunk. True to all those and Ertz still didn't give max effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 11 minutes ago, BigEFly said: That was a heck of a stinger and I thought it affected his lowering his pads in Miami. Face it, with Sanders banged up and Howard available on the PS and roster, the Eagles went with Scott and a dose of Huntley last year and Holyfield never saw the field. Howard has to run like he did pre stinger or his career is over. If, and that’s a numbers game, the Eagles keep four RBs, that fourth position will come from a TC battle or a cut pick up. None of those backs is guaranteed a spot. All pro and Super Bowl MVP. (Sarcasm intended). Agree. And yes I've never seen or heard of a stinger lasting so long it's was unbelievable the amount of time he missed due to a " stinger"🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanMeanGM Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, MillerTime said: The extra game is a fair point. Wentz did it barely by throwing the ball 607 times though. Hurts would have to have the best season in Eagles history on a 16 game season to hit those numbers. But I did forget about the 17th game so those are fair numbers. Carsons YPA was pretty low also making it necessary to throw over 600 times. With Jalen's YPA from last year he would have done it in about 550 attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 51 minutes ago, Swoop said: Curious, because I've seen people throw numbers out there. What would he considered a "good" season by Hurts for some of you? Genuinely curious. 9 wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinfan Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 I don't care about yards with QBs, a lot of QBs pile on yards on bad teams in garbage time. What matters is efficiency, executing the scheme. Now I think Sirianni's Indy offense is going to be far more QB friendly, lots of easy catch and throws underneath, dumps to back, screens, etc., with a good run/pass balance. That should help pad Hurts' numbers, but the key is making those easy throws - making quick decisions, hitting receivers in stride. A lot of QBs struggle with those "easy" throws b/c they're more arm strength than scheme strength, that is, they're best at throwing to a target over the middle of the field but not as good with the touch and timing required for the underneath passes. Throw low or a little behind a receiver and you blow up a good screen play, for example. So to me 2021 is about Hurts learning how to run an offense, not about stats. I expect a slow start as he adjusts to a new scheme and being a starting NFL QB. What I'd like to see is a strong second half, both Hurts growing into the job and the young WRs showing improvement in their route running. If Hurts picks it up, he should be spreading the ball around, running as his last option. Runs should be an alternative to throwing the ball away when there's nothing there (where Wentz lacked the burst to make something out of nothing, Hurts is an excellent runner, and when plays break down, he should run, but not after exhausting his other options). A "pass first" running QB is a headache for DCs, if he forces you to defend the pass for 3-4 seconds, when the protection breaks down and he has to run, often there's lots of empty field - but if you employ a "spy" you're taking a defender out of coverage, and a passer can take advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freshmilk Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 25 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said: What have you done for me lately? Jets/Jags/Cincy have a combined record of 13-35, 12-36, and 12-35-1, respectively, with a combined total of 37-106-1 over the last 3 years. The Eagles last 3 years are 22-25-1. So lately the Eagles are still better. Even last year, the Eagles had a better record than all 3, tho tied with Cincy. If you wanna bet those 3 teams have more wins than the Eagles the next 3 years, I would hope so, as 3 teams totals should outpace one teams. How can you declare those three teams are totally different now? New coaching staffs, new players, same terrible ownership, which can certainly be said of the Eagles, yet, those three teams are different because.....why? Because he loves the Steelers and hates the Eagles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, DeathByEagle said: Maybe bring up the highlights of the season before when he was with us. Seams to be some really good runs in there. Its all about scheme fit and yes the oline blocking for you. One misconception is Jordan is a power back. He is not. Hes a one cut back. Again Scheme. It sure is amazing how much different a back can look behind a functional offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 53 minutes ago, MillerTime said: Only 1 QB in Eagles history has ever thrown for 4000 yards. It only happened once. 63.9 comp% and 27tds that year on 607 throws. In order for Hurts to be good his floor has to be Wentz’ best season in your eyes. 17 game season now. Stats will be going up across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 My expectations for Hurts in 2021 over 17 games: 3,900+ passing yards 28 TD passes 13 interceptions 700+ rushing yards 6 rushing TDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoEagle Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, austinfan said: I don't care about yards with QBs, a lot of QBs pile on yards on bad teams in garbage time. What matters is efficiency, executing the scheme. Now I think Sirianni's Indy offense is going to be far more QB friendly, lots of easy catch and throws underneath, dumps to back, screens, etc., with a good run/pass balance. That should help pad Hurts' numbers, but the key is making those easy throws - making quick decisions, hitting receivers in stride. A lot of QBs struggle with those "easy" throws b/c they're more arm strength than scheme strength, that is, they're best at throwing to a target over the middle of the field but not as good with the touch and timing required for the underneath passes. Throw low or a little behind a receiver and you blow up a good screen play, for example. So to me 2021 is about Hurts learning how to run an offense, not about stats. I expect a slow start as he adjusts to a new scheme and being a starting NFL QB. What I'd like to see is a strong second half, both Hurts growing into the job and the young WRs showing improvement in their route running. If Hurts picks it up, he should be spreading the ball around, running as his last option. Runs should be an alternative to throwing the ball away when there's nothing there (where Wentz lacked the burst to make something out of nothing, Hurts is an excellent runner, and when plays break down, he should run, but not after exhausting his other options). A "pass first" running QB is a headache for DCs, if he forces you to defend the pass for 3-4 seconds, when the protection breaks down and he has to run, often there's lots of empty field - but if you employ a "spy" you're taking a defender out of coverage, and a passer can take advantage. Afan while I agree with your overall point here, that stats aren't the complete story, there has to be a baseline to measure. Looking at last year alone, 22 QBs, including Nick Mullens and Gardner Minshew were able to eclipse 235 yards per game. I don't think setting the bar at that level is particularly high. Even if Hurts gets to that number, it won't tell the entire story. But, if he doesn't even reach that number and plays a full 17 games, don't you think that's a massive issue? Lamar Jackson, who I think most compare Hurts to as a lesser version, has averaged 208 and 183 yards per game the last two years. That's downright horrendous, and a huge reason why I would want no part of that style of offense. It's also a huge reason why they get bounced out of the playoffs every year despite good regular season numbers. In the playoffs, Jacksons per game average actually increases to 225 ypg, but when you look further, he put up 194, 365, 179 and 162 in his 4 playoff games. Again, those are absolutely horrendous numbers for a starting QB. The 365 yard game came on 59 attempts, for a yard per attempt average of 6.19, his lowest in all 4 playoff games. The knock on Jackson has been he's a RB playing QB, and the passing numbers certainly support that assertion. I, and I think many on here, have no interest in that style of QB play, and so we hope Hurts can be less like Lamar and more like a Wilson, who uses his legs to buy time to throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCiggles Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Swoop said: Curious, because I've seen people throw numbers out there. What would he considered a "good" season by Hurts for some of you? Genuinely curious. I think to be a functional starting NFL QB he needs to prove himself as an above average passing QB. I think there are several measure that show The easiest measure would be completion percentage. It's also a hard number to argue against in terms of improvement. The average completion percentage is close to 67%. I don't think that's the sole measure but if he gets above 67% that would be a good indicator. I think the other indicator would be y/a. So a good completion percentage alone shows some improvement but is much less meaningful if his y/a are significantly below average. I mean we don't need a Mitch Trubisky kind of improvement. So if his y/a are closer to 8 than 7, I think that combined with the completion percentage would tell me he's had a good season. The last thing to consider would be his turnovers. He has to also limit his interceptions and fumbles. He needs to get those numbers to a point where he's in the top part of the League. His interception percentage should be around 1.5%, single digit Int's and under 8 fumbles. I think if he can do those things he will have had a good season. I think if he doesn't hit 2 out of 3. The team should really look at a QB in round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greend Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 11 minutes ago, ManuManu said: Nice money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freshmilk Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said: LOL steelers talk is creepy and weird. If you cant see the Jets/Jags/Cinncy is trending up and the Eagles are Trending down I cant help you. Fortunately I don't need your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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