Ongoing Eagles News Discussion

[joemas6]

Sounds like to me, your perfect world would be you selecting the players, but having the Eagles method of paying.  Each year you would have the opportunity to be a player in free agency.    Oops...except last year,and man that really bugs you that one year doesn't it?    Imagine working for Dallas though? 

[cunninghamtheman]

7 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Again... selecting players is different than managing the cap.    

Every bad move by the Eagles is based on being the wrong player.   Yet still Dallas has not advanced further than us since 2016... drafted better, but not been able to do anything in free agency?  

Cap is different.  Only one to me that didn't make sense was Alshon.  Not because of his play...but because redoing his deal didn't save any cap.  

The rest of the Eagles issues is bad player selection.

Save cap on all those moves and just not spend the money. Is it really that inconceivable for you….TO NOT SPEND the money?

[cunninghamtheman]

To roll money over from a non contending team forward to the future. Building on paying the good players. A bit of salary growth towards the cap each year is fine. Taking two million year one on a twelve mil a year contract isn’t the way. That’s the way you write the contracts to keep open the window of contending. Like when you knock on the door ….but then add a Deion Sanders. Then I’m totally fine with it.

[cunninghamtheman]

You are so brainwashed into the Rosie Magic contracts and Chipper QuickSnap offense… you are missing the forest for the trees

[cunninghamtheman]

Clear the cap, Sign good contracts, draft quality players, call good plays….these are the basics everything should run from.

[cunninghamtheman]

Dallas main problem has been bad HC. Zeke getting questionably suspended really hurt them at a crucial point…aided us nicely….to be honest.

[joemas6]

35 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Save cap on all those moves and just not spend the money. Is it really that inconceivable for you….TO NOT SPEND the money?

So basically....you don't want to aquire players...you want to be Dallas.    

[joemas6]

29 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

To roll money over from a non contending team forward to the future. Building on paying the good players. A bit of salary growth towards the cap each year is fine. Taking two million year one on a twelve mil a year contract isn’t the way. That’s the way you write the contracts to keep open the window of contending. Like when you knock on the door ….but then add a Deion Sanders. Then I’m totally fine with it.

So this is where you lose the world. 

1.  You want to draft a player this year...Daxton Hill , vs having Dean, a 2023 1st and a 2024 2nd.

Or. 

2.  You wanted to spend on Marcus Williams.   Which we could have easily done.

But now you want to not spend anything?  Clear the cap? 

So which is it?     Did we need to put it all in even more for this year....  or not?   

[cunninghamtheman]

You should clear the cap first. Then you can make a real run at things. All your points here aren’t correct.

[joemas6]

35 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

 Taking two million year one on a twelve mil a year contract isn’t the way. 

Again..let's try one time here for Math 101.

2 years 12 million 

Year one... 2 mil cap hit.... year 2 = 10 mil cap hit

Vs

Year one ... 6 mil cap hit... year 2 = 6 mil cap hit

Vs

Year one.... 10 mil cap hit... year 2 = 2 mil cap hit...

1st method... 10 mil of cap space carries forward... with 10 mil used year 2.   

2nd method... 6 mil carries forward with 6mil being used year 2

3rd method .... 2 million carries forward with 2 mil being used year 2.

The numbers are a wash.  Why teams use method #1 ( TEAMS, NOT JUST THE EAGLES, IT ISN'T ROSIE MAGIC)  

1.  It gives the team flexibility in the present,incase they want to sign other guys.

2.   If a player doesn't pan out, it lowers the overall cap hit ( dead money)  with the backloaded " salary" that teams either don't pay or gets offset if the player signs elsewhere. 

3. The players like it because they get $$ up front, plus a chance to make more later.  

[joemas6]

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

You should clear the cap first. Then you can make a real run at things. All your points here aren’t correct.

So what was your 2022 move?   You wouldn't have signed Redick,  Kelce, Cox, Bradberry, White...etc... no trade for Brown?   You would have preferred to clear cap space this year, given Hurts nothing to work in his key season for next contract?

You don't like the position the Eagles are in right now, you would prefer to be Dallas going forward?

[joemas6]

6 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

You should clear the cap first. Then you can make a real run at things. All your points here aren’t correct.

Which teams are clearing cap and showing success?   Tell me which team has done that your way...and then had a parade?

[joemas6]

Eagles cleared cap in 2010.... 7 years later they won a SB.    Is that the length of the process you are talking about?  Rams, Tampa, KC, New England, Denver or Seattle go through a cap clearing major process before winning?  

[cunninghamtheman]

5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So what was your 2022 move?   You wouldn't have signed Redick,  Kelce, Cox, Bradberry, White...etc... no trade for Brown?   You would have preferred to clear cap space this year, given Hurts nothing to work in his key season for next contract?

You don't like the position the Eagles are in right now, you would prefer to be Dallas going forward?

I would have been not signing and clearing the cap in 2019. That’s why your brain can’t wrap around the whole idea and theory. You are dealing with the clusterF way of doing things to begin with. Stop it right there. Don’t sign Jackson and Jackson. Don’t do that crap with Alshon. Don’t even consider bringing Peters back. If you just simply clear the cap by not bringing on all these then you still can pay core player or two more up front on the cap then doing the heavy backload…..but here’s the key…wait for it….wait for it….you still roll more money forward AND OWE LESS TO THOSE CORE PLAYERS. Have more rolling forward AND owe less on the signed contracts.

   Sorry you can’t wrap your head around this very simple concept. But I promise you it’s a very legitimate idea and strategy that works.

[joemas6]

Are we that dumb in 2022 that simple math is " Rosie Magic"   ...  this fan base concerns me  little.   Fit bit and protein shakes were apparently some exotic training used by Chip a few years back.

" remember when the QB smoked a cigarette on the sideline at halftime"     that's great, how would that guy do with Aaron Donald chasing after him?   

Math a fitness isn't rocket science???

[joemas6]

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I would have been not signing and clearing the cap in 2019. That’s why your brain can’t wrap around the whole idea and theory. You are dealing with the clusterF way of doing things to begin with. Stop it right there. Don’t sign Jackson and Jackson. Don’t do that crap with Alshon. Don’t even consider bringing Peters back. If you just simply clear the cap by not bringing on all these then you still can pay core player or two more up front on the cap then doing the heavy backload…..but here’s the key…wait for it….wait for it….you still roll more money forward AND OWE LESS TO THOSE CORE PLAYERS. Have more rolling forward AND owe less on the signed contracts.

   Sorry you can’t wrap your head around this very simple concept. But I promise you it’s a very legitimate idea and strategy that works.

Get over yourself with 2019.  You are going to hold that to your grave....let it go man.     

You would have drafted Ziggy... you make all the right moves that nobody else in the league does... get over yourself already.   It's not how things work. 

Let's say all the things you would have done... what does your roster look like?   You still need draft picks ( that don't involve $$ to work out)   

What you want.... you want to take every good move made ( regardless of if you would have made it at the time) and then hindsight every mistake afterwards.    Not real life.

[joemas6]

Here is one... you wouldn't have paid Wentz....so you wouldn't have had him to trade to Indy.... so you wouldn't have had pick 16 to draft Daxton Hill.    See how that works.  

But you would have just signed every free agent in the league because you would have " cleared cap"    Free agency is your way..  every team that clears cap just signs everybody?   And that has worked out how often? 

Just see so many examples.... " concepts are great, so are theories"   but previous examples are better.

[joemas6]

Again... imagine if Dallas just signed Dak a year earlier .... one simple move, major advantage.    One move... not a series of blunders ....just one move that has had way more negative effect.   And one move where the player actually has gotten results. 

[cunninghamtheman]

25 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Which teams are clearing cap and showing success?   Tell me which team has done that your way...and then had a parade?

You should clear the cap first. Then you can make a real run at things. All your points here aren’t correct. GMs are fighting for their jobs they struggle to keep. I’d say that’s the main thing holding back this clear and obvious strategy. Not an excuse with our team however. Think the Jets could be on this path. Niners have been on this path. Niners doing it while paying Jimmy G franchise money….at that.

[joemas6]

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

You should clear the cap first. Then you can make a real run at things. All your points here aren’t correct. GMs are fighting for their jobs they struggle to keep. I’d say that’s the main thing holding back this clear and obvious strategy. Not an excuse with our team however. Think the Jets could be on this path. Niners have been on this path. Niners doing it while paying Jimmy G franchise money….at that.

On the path... how long is the path?

Again... in theory I'm not disagreeing with you.  We are in 2022 now...I'm not worried about previous years.   This year we had money and cap space to make all the moves.   We made more than any other team.    So what do you do THIS YEAR.  What was your move?  

2 answers here..... one is follow this path the Eagles did....or 2 is don't sign Kelce, Cox, Bradberry,White,  Barnett... any of these one year deals...and clear cap.

I'm ok either way.   Just commit to one side in 2022.   Dayton Hill vs Dean and the two picks, I completely disagree but that's another matter.   

[joemas6]

See the path I see for the Eagles now...2022 is all in for one last run with the vets.  It also enables us to see Hurts play with a good roster.   It let's the future core see how the older vets lead.    Then to me,next year is a cap clearing year, but you also lock in the QB if needed, or you move on.   

I understand why they didn't want to go into this year without a strong veteran roster to lead the young guys in the transition, especially if Hurts is a possibility to become long term starter.   They can reshuffle a little next year if he is the guy, then you got a lot of years to plow forward with him.  If he isn't the guy, then reshuffle for the next guy.

[cunninghamtheman]

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

On the path... how long is the path?

Again... in theory I'm not disagreeing with you.  We are in 2022 now...I'm not worried about previous years.   This year we had money and cap space to make all the moves.   We made more than any other team.    So what do you do THIS YEAR.  What was your move?  

2 answers here..... one is follow this path the Eagles did....or 2 is don't sign Kelce, Cox, Bradberry,White,  Barnett... any of these one year deals...and clear cap.

I'm ok either way.   Just commit to one side in 2022.   Dayton Hill vs Dean and the two picks, I completely disagree but that's another matter.   

So after you suck for two years…then you want to start clearing cap so you can rebuild? That’s clearly painful. Start clearing cap space AND pay core players in 2019. Then we wouldn’t have over 50 mil in dead money. We’d also owe a little less on a couple/few players that fit into our longer term plans. It’s a win/win/win. So obviously ….I’m just not sure how you can’t just understand these very simple facts.

[joemas6]

8 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So after you suck for two years…then you want to start clearing cap so you can rebuild? That’s clearly painful. Start clearing cap space AND pay core players in 2019. Then we wouldn’t have over 50 mil in dead money. We’d also owe a little less on a couple/few players that fit into our longer term plans. It’s a win/win/win. So obviously ….I’m just not sure how you can’t just understand these very simple facts.

Ham... pretend the world started in 2022.    Forget 2019.  Let it go.  No disagreement.     2022... A year where cap was enough to do plenty of moves ...just like the Eagles did.    What would you prefer...don't make these moves or make them.  Not a hard question.   

 

[cunninghamtheman]

34 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ham... pretend the world started in 2022.    Forget 2019.  Let it go.  No disagreement.     2022... A year where cap was enough to do plenty of moves ...just like the Eagles did.    What would you prefer...don't make these moves or make them.  Not a hard question.   

 

Didn’t make that many moves. But in a world where the cal will never get cleared…and heavily backloaded contracts will always hold us down from having much more than a one year window…I make the moves.

[cunninghamtheman]

41 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ham... pretend the world started in 2022.    Forget 2019.  Let it go.  No disagreement.     2022... A year where cap was enough to do plenty of moves ...just like the Eagles did.    What would you prefer...don't make these moves or make them.  Not a hard question.   

 

But why not start in the obvious year of 2019. 2017 we won it all. But the dead money and contracts really cramped our window to contend. 2018 you obviously go for the repeat. No problem with that. Actually had it right within reach even with these factors holding us back. You gotta also remember this is all with our QB under rookie contract. No plan paying him Franchise money. So then going into 2019….what do you do? To me, the obvious is….clear cap…so you can open another contending window.