Ongoing Eagles News Discussion

[stine]

I do agree that there is a bunch of work to do. You are echoing a statement I made yesterday about having to replace aging vets. There is much more work to do now than there was in 2015 after Kelly left.

[joemas6]

6 minutes ago, stine said:

  Speaking of our Wide receivers, Wonder if we are underestimating them a bit. Biggest question is Reagor good enough to be a #1? He was drafted in the first round, so we should assume that was the goal for the Eagles. Fulgham seems more than capable to be a #2. Thinking new coaching staff will utilize him better. Ward is OK. JJAW is a ? So is Hightower and Watkins. So, how does Howie & Co. go into this draft? Do they feel Reagor will become what they envision? If so, I could easily see them go Pitts or Parsons or even a CB at 6. Because everyone keeps pointing out that the Eagles never go LB in the first, I now think that maybe Pitts is the guy they are eyeing. Of course a QB is always a possibility..... I hope not lol

QB needs to be the buzz... because it both makes sense with their philosophy if they take one...but also looking to trade back, it makes sense to have other teams think you are going QB to get more if you trade back.  Teams rarely trade this high in the draft for a player that is not a QB. I would think they would prefer to make a selection ....( if it isn't a QB or linemen) further down than 6, due to how they value positions.  If they get stuck having to pull the trigger at 6 and Sewell is gone... I can easily see QB.   For this reason I expect a trade back.

[stine]

  We have nothing to worry about. Howie is dead on with his drafts!! 2-3 years and we will be SB contenders!!!

[joemas6]

4 minutes ago, time2rock said:

You'd think they have to be a bit more hesitant to pay Dak after watching Goff and Wentz get dealt.  

They have a better supporting cast set up around a QB.  Just a question of using the tag, which may come into play from both sides... especially if Dallas thinks they can land Wilson in 2022.

[joemas6]

5 minutes ago, stine said:

I do agree that there is a bunch of work to do. You are echoing a statement I made yesterday about having to replace aging vets. There is much more work to do now than there was in 2015 after Kelly left.

I don't remember this much work... maybe since Buddy took over from Campbell back in 86.   Back then there wasn't free agency to help though.  At least Howie can use that...just sell what a great environment it is to come play for a winner in Philly, players will take less for sure to come here.

[stine]

Really is sad when you think about what could have been. in 2019 we draft Metcalf, Last year we draft Jefferson and Chinn. I think we are now looking at just rebuilding the defense instead of QB and WR in addition to Defense.

[stine]

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I don't remember this much work... maybe since Buddy took over from Campbell back in 86.   Back then there wasn't free agency to help though.  At least Howie can use that...just sell what a great environment it is to come play for a winner in Philly, players will take less for sure to come here.

  DC thinks the last time we were in this bad of shape was around 97/98.... That was a long time ago.....

[time2rock]

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

They have a better supporting cast set up around a QB.  Just a question of using the tag, which may come into play from both sides... especially if Dallas thinks they can land Wilson in 2022.

I have a feeling that is exactly what they will plan to do.  They could try to re-sign Dalton for a year and let Dak walk so as not to use so much of their cap to tag him again.  Obviously Dalton would be much cheaper for 2021.

[joemas6]

2 minutes ago, stine said:

  DC thinks the last time we were in this bad of shape was around 97/98.... That was a long time ago.....

Nah, at that time Andy took over it was 99.  We had 3/4 of that stud secondary in place and they were still young. Tra Thomas and Mayberry on the OL, Hugh Douglas and Hollis Thomas on the DL. Trotter and Reese I am not counting because they developed under Reid so that should happen with a couple young players under Sirianni.  But my point is if you look at the guys I just mentioned,  they were younger and in their primes,  our current core ( the best players) are old. Can't use them to build around long term, like Andy had back then.   So while you are looking at a bad 2021... I think it could easily be the best season out of the next 3.  I could see 7 or 8 wins, followed by a couple 4- 6 win seasons as the vets slowly come off the roster. 

[GreenbleedinNC]

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

I suppose we could find ourselves in that situation (where he is the top rated player left on the board at 37 ... it looks like we flip flip with Cincy in round 2 and pick 37 with them picking right after us), but you know how these things go and rarely when we get past the top 10 have the top ranked players been plucked ... there are always some that fall either slightly (due to the needs of the teams making the pick) or significantly (character concerns, poor combine, etc.).  So what do YOU do if when pick 37 rolls around and players like Samuel Jr or Bateman or Paye (players that are widely ranked higher) are sitting there (which you know some will)?  

If we do take Trask I wouldn't love it but I would hope that because he worked previously with our new QB coach Johnson that he'd be able to get the best out of him.  But will it be good enough or will we end up with 2 QBs with limited ceilings that will only be able to take this team so far but not be good enough to take us on deep playoff runs?  That is why I would prefer to target an elite prospect IF we decide to go QB (but that can be next year - doesn't have to be 2021).  

I never claimed Trask was a top 10, let alone a round 1(he could go at the tail of 1). All I am saying is round 2 presents us a CHEAP way to pick up a potentially talented QB. There must be reasons he is not being ranked in round 4? If we need a BU,when do you plan on getting one? I'm sure we'll bring in some camp arms,we always do just like every other team. I would be fine with your suggestions,but also leary that we have ONE QB. If he goes down we go back to PANIC mode in FA and overpay to get a QB in here or have to sign a UDFA, which would basically destroy any chance of a decent season. Yes we need all the positions you mention,we also need a viable BU for those "batemans" out there. SO which first,chicken or egg? Trask is the last of the top tier

[joemas6]

10 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I have a feeling that is exactly what they will plan to do.  They could try to re-sign Dalton for a year and let Dak walk so as not to use so much of their cap to tag him again.  Obviously Dalton would be much cheaper for 2021.

Tough sell on the fanbase and players right now... after Dak was lighting it up and they fell in the toilet with the other guys.   If they forfeit this year, that is a bad look.  To me the tag seems best for all parties. But who knows. 

[GreenbleedinNC]

59 minutes ago, stine said:

Joe, I think this is all a misread from GB's original post. He was comparing Hurts 4 games to Wentz's first 4 games of 2020. He was trying to use same team for the comparison. You misread this and posted stats from Wentz's first 4 original starts in 2016. Anyway, that is how I took it. I could be wrong lol, won't be the last time for sure not the first..

Yes

[time2rock]

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I never claimed Trask was a top 10, let and a round 1. All I am saying is round 2 presents us a CHEAP way to pick up a potentially talented QB. There must be reasons he is not being ranked in round 4? If we need a BU,when do you plan on getting one? I'm sure we'll bring in some camp arms,we always do just like every other team. I would be fine with your suggestions,but also leary that we have ONE QB. If he goes down we go back to PANIC mode in FA and overpay to get a QB in here or have to sign a UDFA, which would basically destroy any chance of a decent season. Yes we need all the positions you mention,we also need a viable BU for those "batemans" out there. SO which first,chicken or egg?

I never said you said that my man.  

If Hurts doesn't make a solid case for himself being the starter moving forward after 2021 (which could very well end up being the case), then we will most likely target a QB early next year (which means Hurts is your backup 2022 and 2023).  Do you really want to blow TWO 2nd rd picks on backup QBs?  For this year, I think it is best to bring in a vet and add another on day 3 (or grab a UDFA or 2) to round out the DC for 2021.  

I don't know, I am not thinking we are going to be competitive this year regardless of what we do ... too many holes.  I'm building for 2022/2023 and beyond.  

[time2rock]

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Tough sell on the fanbase and players right now... after Dak was lighting it up and they fell in the toilet with the other guys.   If they forfeit this year, that is a bad look.  To me the tag seems best for all parties. But who knows. 

I hope they do ... it'll be costly (QB on 2nd tag)!  Then it'll really put them in a bad spot going into 2022 - Dak will have all the leverage.  

[GreenbleedinNC]

54 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

But we have a new coach and offense.  And I don't think they were so much into 2 TEs as much it was putting the best players on the field... looking at our WRs, was it a shock to want to put out 2 TEs as much as possible? 

Except Pitts is not your typical TE. he can play like a WR also,so putting him that neat little "TE BOX" is not the way to view his abilities. As Ham aptly corrected me, we don't need WR's we need PASS CATCHERS. This guy will create havoc anywhere on the field. If he is at 6, passing on him it would be my definition of  NFL draft stupidity. I'm sure the Lions would LOVE to have him(their war room could use some love like we gave to the Vikes)

[GreenbleedinNC]

7 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I never said you said that my man.  

If Hurts doesn't make a solid case for himself being the starter moving forward after 2021 (which could very well end up being the case), then we will most likely target a QB early next year (which means Hurts is your backup 2022 and 2023).  Do you really want to blow TWO 2nd rd picks on backup QBs?  For this year, I think it is best to bring in a vet and add another on day 3 (or grab a UDFA or 2) to round out the DC for 2021.  

I don't know, I am not thinking we are going to be competitive this year regardless of what we do ... too many holes.  I'm building for 2022/2023 and beyond.  

SO your risking a year on the CHANCE Hurts is good? And you have NO Bu in place if he gets hurt or sucks? WOW, that ts terrible planning IMO. People talk like round 2 QB's are chopped liver. Brady would argue with you as would the multitude of round 2 SB's who made careers. SO fine,take a late scrub and PRAY he can play or PRAY there is a viable FA we can afford at the end of the draft 

[joemas6]

7 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I never claimed Trask was a top 10, let alone a round 1(he could go at the tail of 1). All I am saying is round 2 presents us a CHEAP way to pick up a potentially talented QB. There must be reasons he is not being ranked in round 4? If we need a BU,when do you plan on getting one? I'm sure we'll bring in some camp arms,we always do just like every other team. I would be fine with your suggestions,but also leary that we have ONE QB. If he goes down we go back to PANIC mode in FA and overpay to get a QB in here or have to sign a UDFA, which would basically destroy any chance of a decent season. Yes we need all the positions you mention,we also need a viable BU for those "batemans" out there. SO which first,chicken or egg? Trask is the last of the top tier

So this is the $64 question.    Do you focus so much on making sure 2021 has it's best chance of being decent, or do you look at what is the fastest way to get back to being a contender? 

I think over the years that this idea of focusing so much on avoiding disaster, was a big reason we stayed a couple tiers below truly contending.   If it were me, I'm trading back from 6, not drafting a QB any time early...throwing as many blind darts in the draft to try to hit for down the road.   I'm sure we can land a project QB very late or UDFA, and sign a vet on minimum salary.   But I'm not focused on 2021, nor should the front office.  Give Hurts everything. The next guy would inherit more if he does bad.   Either way, avoiding a bad season to me isn't a way to build a winner.  You take your lumps, pick higher the next draft and you go all in behind whoever your #1 QB is.  Otherwise you end up like the Jets... 4 years with Darnold, in reality nobody has a clue if he could be good or not due to crap around him. 

[GreenbleedinNC]

47 minutes ago, stine said:

  Speaking of our Wide receivers, Wonder if we are underestimating them a bit. Biggest question is Reagor good enough to be a #1? He was drafted in the first round, so we should assume that was the goal for the Eagles. Fulgham seems more than capable to be a #2. Thinking new coaching staff will utilize him better. Ward is OK. JJAW is a ? So is Hightower and Watkins. So, how does Howie & Co. go into this draft? Do they feel Reagor will become what they envision? If so, I could easily see them go Pitts or Parsons or even a CB at 6. Because everyone keeps pointing out that the Eagles never go LB in the first, I now think that maybe Pitts is the guy they are eyeing. Of course a QB is always a possibility..... I hope not lol

Same things I see. Lost of lore than decent WR's here,even as far down as round 5. All we need is a guy who can make 4-6 plays a game. You don't need a star for that(although it's prefereable) Li9ke my guys Shi and Grimes in round 5(and there are others as well pick your fav) that will help this tea, without blowing up your draft. AKA no need to reach for one,so yep I am 100% in on Pitts(basically a WR and TE rolled into 1 player)

[GreenbleedinNC]

38 minutes ago, stine said:

  We have nothing to worry about. Howie is dead on with his drafts!! 2-3 years and we will be SB contenders!!!

Well crap,now I have to wipe coffee off my comp screen 🤣

[joemas6]

9 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I hope they do ... it'll be costly (QB on 2nd tag)!  Then it'll really put them in a bad spot going into 2022 - Dak will have all the leverage.  

Dak loses leverage in 2022... he can't be tagged a 3rd time.   It's why it could make sense for both parties this year.  Dak will go on open market and Dallas won't have to outbid themselves.  Easier sell to the locker room if Dak gets offer from other team that they don't match.  This year, with the tag, they control if he leaves.  The players know this, so harder to let him go.

[GreenbleedinNC]

33 minutes ago, stine said:

  DC thinks the last time we were in this bad of shape was around 97/98.... That was a long time ago.....

I think recent issue are related to the fact first,we cannot identify talent. Secondly,it takes us forever for our talent to develop(if at all) Then once they show signs of life we let them go. How many of those guys can you count. It takes more than 2 hands to do. So I am glad we cleaned the staff out. maybe these new guys have a clue? That is what I will cling to(and my 12 pack of Rolling Rock)

[GreenbleedinNC]

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I think recent issue are related to the fact first,we cannot identify talent. Secondly,it takes us forever for our talent to develop(if at all) Then once they show signs of life we let them go. How many of those guys can you count. It takes more than 2 hands to do. So I am glad we cleaned the staff out. maybe these new guys have a clue? That is what I will cling to(and my 12 pack of Rolling Rock)

So,for me this is the kicker, the problem REMAINS that we trust Howie to identify the talent,in some semblance of order(aka big board) and he's NOT good at it. SO Howie cleaned house hoping this new staff can take mediocre draft picks and turn them into stars(same as it ever was)

[GreenbleedinNC]

21 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I'm building for 2022/2023 and beyond.  

Me too,we just have a different "build order" lol.If your building an Ikea,we would both do it different,but the end result is the same(well maybe not in my case HAHA)

[time2rock]

9 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

SO your risking a year on the CHANCE Hurts is good? And you have NO Bu in place if he gets hurt or sucks? WOW, that ts terrible planning IMO. People talk like round 2 QB's are chopped liver. Brady would argue with you as would the multitude of round 2 SB's who made careers. SO fine,take a late scrub and PRAY he can play or PRAY there is a viable FA we can afford at the end of the draft 

I'm willing to put as risk a year that we aren't going to be good anyway - IMO this is a year where there is nothing to lose by doing so.  And I'd bring in a vet like Taylor to serve as backup (so I don't see that as terrible planning - perhaps it is to someone who is stubborn and thinks their opinion is the only right one it is haha ).  And lol at using Brady as if there is a full history of late round QBs becoming special.

[GreenbleedinNC]

21 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I hope they do ... it'll be costly (QB on 2nd tag)!  Then it'll really put them in a bad spot going into 2022 - Dak will have all the leverage.  

Also they face what if he isn't the same QB?. This is very difficult to know after a super major injury. Like Ham argued on here,maybe Wentz wasn't the same QB after the concuss. He definitely was not the same using the eye test and apparently Howie wasn't waiting around for another possible dismal season with Wentz