Ongoing Eagles News Discussion

[jsb235]

51 minutes ago, stine said:

  Speaking of our Wide receivers, Wonder if we are underestimating them a bit. Biggest question is Reagor good enough to be a #1? He was drafted in the first round, so we should assume that was the goal for the Eagles. Fulgham seems more than capable to be a #2. Thinking new coaching staff will utilize him better. Ward is OK. JJAW is a ? So is Hightower and Watkins. So, how does Howie & Co. go into this draft? Do they feel Reagor will become what they envision? If so, I could easily see them go Pitts or Parsons or even a CB at 6. Because everyone keeps pointing out that the Eagles never go LB in the first, I now think that maybe Pitts is the guy they are eyeing. Of course a QB is always a possibility..... I hope not lol

I think our wrs have been victimized by a combination of bad playcalling, bad qb play and bad oline play, combined with the fact that they are all young. Just as our corners seem to get better when they leave here, I think we saw the same thing with Agholor. If you look at Jefferson, he walked into a situation where his team had a good qb, an excellent running game, a good oline that stayed healthy, two solid TEs and an established #1 wr. Personally I think any receiver on our team walking into those circumstances would have done well.

A good example of a different position is Tristan Wirfs with TB. He had a great season, but what people don't realize is that Tom Brady always makes his tackles look good. Solder was the highest graded left tackle in football, and then when he went to the Giants he was a mess.

It's why I haven't given up hope on JJAW, and why I think we shouldn't even draft a wr this year. Pitts is fine since he is a TE, but I wouldn't even think about drafting another offensive player in the first three rounds since we need more talent on defense. 

[GreenbleedinNC]

7 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I'm willing to put as risk a year that we aren't going to be good anyway - IMO this is a year where there is nothing to lose by doing so.  And I'd bring in a vet like Taylor to serve as backup (so I don't see that as terrible planning - perhaps it is to someone who is stubborn and thinks their opinion is the only right one it is haha ).  And lol at using Brady as if there is a full history of late round QBs becoming special.

Trask won't make us "good" either. neither will ANYone until we get the pieces mostly in place. I am not stubborn,I am offering my opinion and it's a logical one.You can believe or not, I dont control that. I spend(as Joe will tell you) WAY too much time on mocks and drafts and such and as most on here will attest,I have picked players for us to some degree. I did RB's and got that right 3 years in a row. Now that RB is a need,but not a priority I have had to shift gears. So believe or don't. There are a number of ways to approach this. Anyone can pick out 1 guy and say "Oh I want him" Try a 7 round mock and cover all you need. It's not easy and if you show me yours,I would most certainly take a look. make them "gettable" Nobody is getting Bateman in round 5. So post your mock,then we can discuss the comparisons to my own

[joemas6]

2 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I'm willing to put as risk a year that we aren't going to be good anyway - IMO this is a year where there is nothing to lose by doing so.  And I'd bring in a vet like Taylor to serve as backup (so I don't see that as terrible planning - perhaps it is to someone who is stubborn and thinks their opinion is the only right one it is haha ).  And lol at using Brady as if there is a full history of late round QBs becoming special.

In reality... the vet backup should provide for a " less worse" 2021 than the rookie... in the event of Hurts injury.  So your way works best both ways. If the idea is about a backup.   

[GreenbleedinNC]

8 minutes ago, time2rock said:

here is a full history of late round QBs becoming special.

But not Trask lmao(see what I mean?)

[time2rock]

12 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Me too,we just have a different "build order" lol.If your building an Ikea,we would both do it different,but the end result is the same(well maybe not in my case HAHA)

Haha true! 

 

[joemas6]

8 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I think our wrs have been victimized by a combination of bad playcalling, bad qb play and bad oline play, combined with the fact that they are all young. Just as our corners seem to get better when they leave here, I think we saw the same thing with Agholor. If you look at Jefferson, he walked into a situation where his team had a good qb, an excellent running game, a good oline that stayed healthy, two solid TEs and an established #1 wr. Personally I think any receiver on our team walking into those circumstances would have done well.

A good example of a different position is Tristan Wirfs with TB. He had a great season, but what people don't realize is that Tom Brady always makes his tackles look good. Solder was the highest graded left tackle in football, and then when he went to the Giants he was a mess.

It's why I haven't given up hope on JJAW, and why I think we shouldn't even draft a wr this year. Pitts is fine since he is a TE, but I wouldn't even think about drafting another offensive player in the first three rounds since we need more talent on defense. 

Without going to your extreme level of faith in our WRs... to me it's simple.  We have youth on offense, we don't on defense.  That's enough to lean toward D right there. 

[GreenbleedinNC]

8 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

In reality... the vet backup should provide for a " less worse" 2021 than the rookie... in the event of Hurts injury.  So your way works best both ways. If the idea is about a backup.   

Which "vet" are you getting with little, if any cap space?? If you get that vet at QB, no loot left for FA's anyplace else. If we were flush with cash,I would agree with this. Taking Trask gives you a BU, costs nothing and buys you a year to "figure it out". Then take a UDFA to be your #3,again no loot spent and later cutting one(or 2) doesnt hurt a bit

[time2rock]

12 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Also they face what if he isn't the same QB?. This is very difficult to know after a super major injury. Like Ham argued on here,maybe Wentz wasn't the same QB after the concuss. He definitely was not the same using the eye test and apparently Howie wasn't waiting around for another possible dismal season with Wentz

Even more reason to hope they either tag or go all in and pay him at market price.  If he doesn't get back to the same level it really puts a monkey wrench in their plans.  

[joemas6]

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Which "vet" are you getting with little, if any cap space?? If you get that vet at QB, no loot left for FA's anyplace else. If we were flush with cash,I would agree with this

There will be a vet that comes cheap. I don't need to rush to get him yet. But to your point... it's why trading Ertz for Foles isn't going to work. We need the cheaper vet that knows his opportunity is there without any pressure to be the #2.  

[GreenbleedinNC]

9 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Even more reason to hope they either tag or go all in and pay him at market price.  If he doesn't get back to the same level it really puts a monkey wrench in their plans.  

I think they have to do it. The fans would go wild if they cut him. They would need to see Dak SUCK to turn on him

[GreenbleedinNC]

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

There will be a vet that comes cheap. I don't need to rush to get him yet. But to your point... it's why trading Ertz for Foles isn't going to work. We need the cheaper vet that knows his opportunity is there without any pressure to be the #2.  

So a "cheap" vet(that will remain a cheap vet and a lifer #2) is better than a rookie with upside potential to start? ok got it. I'll save my 5 million or whatever you pay and take the rook and use that 5 mil on a DL/LB guy.

[Asg 15]

Alex Smith likely to get cut by the Redskins.

If he can be had really cheap i wouldn't be against bringing him in to mentor Hurts.

Depends on the pricetag.

 

[time2rock]

 

7 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

There will be a vet that comes cheap. I don't need to rush to get him yet. But to your point... it's why trading Ertz for Foles isn't going to work. We need the cheaper vet that knows his opportunity is there without any pressure to be the #2.  

I don't see us being players in FA ... I think most of the focus this year will be to rid the roster with as many of the overpriced, declining vets that is financially possible and add to the roster using the draft picks and rookie FAs.  2021 is likely to be a re-setting of the table kind of year, where we know we're going to take one on the chin for a year while we start the rebuild (they can call it re-tool or whatever but it is a start of a rebuild).  Perfect year to give an extended look at an unproven QB to get a more complete evaluation of him.  If he doesn't pass the eye test then go all out to get your QB next year.  Meanwhile add as many pieces around him this year that can be solid building blocks for the next 4 years minimum.  I know some wouldn't go that route and not saying it is the only right way to do this but that would be my plan anyway lol.  

[joemas6]

8 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Even more reason to hope they either tag or go all in and pay him at market price.  If he doesn't get back to the same level it really puts a monkey wrench in their plans.  

My idea all along in why I wanted Dak tagged... he gets full cap hit each year,  while watching the QB market go through the roof.   

I'll comment more about this in a year,  don't want to bring up a certain contract and point out why it was actually good business cap wise to do it 2 years ago... will be easier to see once we see how the season goes and compare it to what Dak gets. 

[GreenbleedinNC]

4 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I know some wouldn't go that route

🤣 You can call me out bro lol

[joemas6]

5 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So a "cheap" vet(that will remain a cheap vet and a lifer #2) is better than a rookie with upside potential to start? ok got it. I'll save my 5 million or whatever you pay and take the rook and use that 5 mil on a DL/LB guy.

I'll pay near vet minimum... Foles is already overpaid at $4 mil.  There will be one or 2 cheaper, especially in this market with half the teams not having cap space.  

And yes..  for your idea of just salvaging 2021...  the vet would offer a greater chance to do that.  The rookie would be more investment for potential down the road.   But would come at a price of sacrificing taking another young player at one of the many that we need.  Do a mock and tell me who we could get at pick 37. I'm sure you could find many quality players. 

[stine]

38 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So,for me this is the kicker, the problem REMAINS that we trust Howie to identify the talent,in some semblance of order(aka big board) and he's NOT good at it. SO Howie cleaned house hoping this new staff can take mediocre draft picks and turn them into stars(same as it ever was)

rolling rock... Been awhile since I had me one of those. Of course I rarely drink now anyway, but on a hot summer's day.......

[joemas6]

7 minutes ago, time2rock said:

 

I don't see us being players in FA ... I think most of the focus this year will be to rid the roster with as many of the overpriced, declining vets that is financially possible and add to the roster using the draft picks and rookie FAs.  2021 is likely to be a re-setting of the table kind of year, where we know we're going to take one on the chin for a year while we start the rebuild (they can call it re-tool or whatever but it is a start of a rebuild).  Perfect year to give an extended look at an unproven QB to get a more complete evaluation of him.  If he doesn't pass the eye test then go all out to get your QB next year.  Meanwhile add as many pieces around him this year that can be solid building blocks for the next 4 years minimum.  I know some wouldn't go that route and not saying it is the only right way to do this but that would be my plan anyway lol.  

I think most would go this route.   And we are not " players " in FA. But there will be vet QBs just happy to get a job. I don't see this year as a market that will pay top dollar for backup QBs.  Not with the lower cap situation.  Things may get back to normal next year,  but it's a perfect year to land one really cheap.  

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Just now, joemas6 said:

I think most would go this route.   And we are not " players " in FA. But there will be vet QBs just happy to get a job. I don't see this year as a market that will pay top dollar for backup QBs.  Not with the lower cap situation.  Things may get back to normal next year,  but it's a perfect year to land one really cheap.  

Yeah I think it's going to be interesting. With the cap limit I think a lot of those mid range games are going to end up not getting as much as previous years. 

[Asg 15]

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I'll pay near vet minimum... Foles is already overpaid at $4 mil.  There will be one or 2 cheaper, especially in this market with half the teams not having cap space.  

And yes..  for your idea of just salvaging 2021...  the vet would offer a greater chance to do that.  The rookie would be more investment for potential down the road.   But would come at a price of sacrificing taking another young player at one of the many that we need.  Do a mock and tell me who we could get at pick 37. I'm sure you could find many quality players. 

The problem with bringing Foles back is you have a built in QB controversy just because it's Foles

[GreenbleedinNC]

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I'll pay near vet minimum... Foles is already overpaid at $4 mil.  There will be one or 2 cheaper, especially in this market with half the teams not having cap space.  

And yes..  for your idea of just salvaging 2021...  the vet would offer a greater chance to do that.  The rookie would be more investment for potential down the road.   But would come at a price of sacrificing taking another young player at one of the many that we need.  Do a mock and tell me who we could get at pick 37. I'm sure you could find many quality players. 

SO why not do BOTH? Why are you passing up a Trask(yes I know if he isnt there we cant take him) and pick up your cheapie vet. This is the identical BS route that gets us in trouble all the time. Play it safe, grab the old cheap vets, rinse and repeat. Isn't that really evident at WR???? I'm breaking that mold and getting the YOUTH y'all keep asking for, but NO NO back to the old retreads because those are "affordable". If they were that good the other team would not release them(even as a #2 QB unless they had something better???) Like we did with Suds "oh he's cheap and a good guy" Very stupid

[time2rock]

7 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

🤣 You can call me out bro lol

I'm sure you're not the only one that would disagree with my idea.  

[joemas6]

Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Yeah I think it's going to be interesting. With the cap limit I think a lot of those mid range games are going to end up not getting as much as previous years. 

It's easy to see... basic economics.  When times are bad, the middle class suffers.  The good players will get their $ in free agency.   The bottom feeders... I wouldn't expect Andy Daulton or Chase Daniel's type of money this year.  Be lucky to get $2 mil.   

[GreenbleedinNC]

5 minutes ago, stine said:

rolling rock... Been awhile since I had me one of those. Of course I rarely drink now anyway, but on a hot summer's day.......

Oh that's my beer.It's the BEST!!! hard to find down here in NC. I dont drink alot either now, thats my "go to". But no bars here carry it lol

[time2rock]

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I think most would go this route.   And we are not " players " in FA. But there will be vet QBs just happy to get a job. I don't see this year as a market that will pay top dollar for backup QBs.  Not with the lower cap situation.  Things may get back to normal next year,  but it's a perfect year to land one really cheap.  

Well I have seen quite a few posters suggesting to use pick 6 on a QB.  I wouldn't but if we somehow landed a guy that turned into a Mahomes or Watson or Allen or Herbert (after one year so still TBD - Wentz looked great after his first year and even better after year 2 but all downhill since).  I just don't see any of the top QBs being that kind of guy.