Carson Wentz and the Colts pick - officially #16 (topic closed)

[EazyEaglez]

6 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Not sure that would help us IF Watson can then play this year? If he can't then yeah that would be a big help for us I guess. But I'm not sure what Miami can really give up to get Watson? With no first next year they would have to give up a hell of a lot. They may be better accepting this year is a loss and give us a high pick... 😆

The good news for them is Watson wants to go there. Remember how the rumors swirled about how the Bears offered a better deal for Wentz than the Colts, but Carson didn’t want to go there so the Eagles basically settled for the Colts deal when they offered the conditional pick. Even though the Texans may want a King’s Ranson for him it may not be in the cards especially if they want a guy just sitting around with a huge contract and a possible suspension sitting on their books. 

[Bwestbrook36]

39 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Not sure that would help us IF Watson can then play this year? If he can't then yeah that would be a big help for us I guess. But I'm not sure what Miami can really give up to get Watson? With no first next year they would have to give up a hell of a lot. They may be better accepting this year is a loss and give us a high pick... 😆

Texans are refusing to play Watson right now. That tells you all you need to know that they want nothing to with him and neither should we. His crap won't be anywhere close to being cleared up till at least next spring. Probably after the draft. 

His price will start to fall the more time drags on. 

[Infam]

43 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Not sure that would help us IF Watson can then play this year? If he can't then yeah that would be a big help for us I guess. But I'm not sure what Miami can really give up to get Watson? With no first next year they would have to give up a hell of a lot. They may be better accepting this year is a loss and give us a high pick... 😆

Not so sure about it.

I think the time for high demands is over. With more and more details on him, and Watson a persona non grata over there, unwanted and unwilling for everyone to see… I doubt their hope for a kings ransom is realistic.

[Procus]

2 hours ago, Infam said:

Not so sure about it.

I think the time for high demands is over. With more and more details on him, and Watson a persona non grata over there, unwanted and unwilling for everyone to see… I doubt their hope for a kings ransom is realistic.

The Texans are getting bubkas for him right now and they know it.  All the more reason to keep the asking price high for now.  Why negotiate against yourself?  If his legal problems resolve, then a more realistic scenario will present itself.

[Big___Al]

11 hours ago, NOTW said:

What they traded for Wentz: (If I missed detail let me know I'll update, going by Pro Football Reference footnotes on each draft)

• 2016 1st round pick (#8, used on OT Jack Conklin)
• 2017 1st round pick (was traded to Houston who took DeShaun Watson)
• 2018 2nd round pick (was traded, used on DE Tyquan Lewis)
• 2016 3rd round pick (used on Daryl Worley CB)
• 2016 4th round pick (used on QB Connor Cook, out of the league after a year)

What they got in return from Browns:

• 2016 1st round pick #2 to select Wentz
• 2017 4th pick (traded along with a 7th to move up and take Pumphrey. Yes they traded up for him)

From Colts:

• 2021 3rd round pick (used in trade up for DeVonta Smith)
• 2022 2nd round pick (TBD)

Maybe just as a footnote to this good rundown, you could add how much money we wasted on him. Would bring even more perspective to the deal.

[MF POON]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:40 PM, greend said:

He wouldn't need to throw 1 t.d. if he could somehow manage to lead us to 15-2 or 14-3 without throwing 1. What a ridiculous statement.

You an idiot? Way to avoid the point that was made. I stated he didn't have to throw over 40 TDs, but he could get in the high 30's (with low INT #s), and with a top seeded record could win MVP (even if there's other QBs with like 40+ TDs).  In case you lack basic reading comprehension, I'm saying that 37 or so TDs, along with the best record in the league could net him an MVP.  

[MF POON]

On 9/20/2021 at 9:13 PM, Procus said:

In retrospect, what would have been better would be if the Eagles traded him for a king's ransom following the SB year. At the time, he could likely have fetched multiple one's.  Of course hindsight is 20-20, and Foles has proven that he's not the answer as a long term starting QB in the league.

Honestly, I was in favor of keeping Foles and trading Wentz after the SB win. That, or just allowing Wentz to start and prove he could stay healthy before paying him.  When they signed him to that big contract, I shook my head and figured it was a bad move.

[greend]

19 minutes ago, MF POON said:

You an idiot? Way to avoid the point that was made. I stated he didn't have to throw over 40 TDs, but he could get in the high 30's (with low INT #s), and with a top seeded record could win MVP (even if there's other QBs with like 40+ TDs).  In case you lack basic reading comprehension, I'm saying that 37 or so TDs, along with the best record in the league could net him an MVP.  

mmmmkay

[EazyEaglez]

17 hours ago, downundermike said:

How would them trading future picks help the Eagles ??  It would have no impact on how they play this year.

So they do something stupid and waste their future picks on trading for Watson. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

So they do something stupid and waste their future picks on trading for Watson. 

It would have zero impact on what pick the Eagles get in 2022.  That pick will be based on 2021 record, trading future picks will have no impact on wins and losses in 2021.

[MF POON]

I don't even want to entertain a Watson trade unless we know Hurts flat out stinks after a full season starting.

[NOTW]

2 hours ago, MF POON said:

I don't even want to entertain a Watson trade unless we know Hurts flat out stinks after a full season starting.

No to Watson.  If Hurts isn't the guy or you have doubts, draft a QB next year.

[MF POON]

5 minutes ago, NOTW said:

No to Watson.  If Hurts isn't the guy or you have doubts, draft a QB next year.

It really all depends on how his ordeal plays out. Right now it's a definite no due to the public trial he's facing, but IF he's cleared of any wrongdoing, I wouldn't mind entertaining it if Hurts stinks.  This city once embraced a convicted "dog killer,"  I don't see why they couldn't embrace a guy who then would be wrongfully accused of SA.

[Procus]

28 minutes ago, MF POON said:

It really all depends on how his ordeal plays out. Right now it's a definite no due to the public trial he's facing, but IF he's cleared of any wrongdoing, I wouldn't mind entertaining it if Hurts stinks.  This city once embraced a convicted "dog killer,"  I don't see why they couldn't embrace a guy who then would be wrongfully accused of SA.

It's all academic. He has a no trade clause and doesn't want to come to Philly

[time2rock]

Looking less likely Carson will suit up this weekend.

Quote

No Carson Wentz at Colts practice on Thursday

Posted by Mike Florio on September 23, 2021, 2:11 PM EDT

 

Colts quarterback Carson Wentz could still play on Sunday. For now, he’s not practicing.

Via multiple reports, Wentz is not present at Indianapolis practice on Thursday.

Wentz has a pair of sprained ankles. If he can’t play, the Colts reportedly will use Jacob Eason and Brett Hundley.

Whenever Wentz returns, he needs to pivot sharply toward protecting himself. His right ankle injury happened because he allowed himself to be dragged down by Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald. The smartest move is to get rid of the ball before being dragged down by a guy like Aaron Donald.

To avoid future injury, Wentz needs to know when to throw the ball away and hit the deck. There’s a fine line between toughness and recklessness. All too often, Wentz is on the wrong side of it.

As a result, the Colts ended up without Wentz in crunch time on Sunday against the Rams — and they could be without him in three days against the Titans. Which means that they could be headed for 0-3.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/09/23/no-carson-wentz-at-colts-practice-on-thursday/

[NOTW]

2 hours ago, MF POON said:

It really all depends on how his ordeal plays out. Right now it's a definite no due to the public trial he's facing, but IF he's cleared of any wrongdoing, I wouldn't mind entertaining it if Hurts stinks.  This city once embraced a convicted "dog killer,"  I don't see why they couldn't embrace a guy who then would be wrongfully accused of SA.

 

2 hours ago, Procus said:

It's all academic. He has a no trade clause and doesn't want to come to Philly

This, plus I don't even want someone associated with that much accusations and baggage.  Vick spent time in jail and had Tony Dungy and Andy Reid vouch for him.  And that wasn't even that worth it.

[Bwestbrook36]

2 minutes ago, NOTW said:

 

This, plus I don't even want someone associated with that much accusations and baggage.  Vick spent time in jail and had Tony Dungy and Andy Reid vouch for him.  And that wasn't even that worth it.

Nope, he gave us 10 good games then went back to the same old Vick and even admitted once again that he didn't put the time in his playbook for Reid either. 

He turned into a good locker room guy as far as racial issues go and some of that stuff but, he was still a guy who just played back yard football on the field. 

[Procus]

33 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Nope, he gave us 10 good games then went back to the same old Vick and even admitted once again that he didn't put the time in his playbook for Reid either. 

He turned into a good locker room guy as far as racial issues go and some of that stuff but, he was still a guy who just played back yard football on the field. 

I mean if he couldn't deliver the goods for Chip Kelly of all coaches, it's pretty clear that he wasn't going to play past his limitations.

[Procus]

23 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Texans are refusing to play Watson right now. That tells you all you need to know that they want nothing to with him and neither should we. His crap won't be anywhere close to being cleared up till at least next spring. Probably after the draft. 

His price will start to fall the more time drags on. 

He's going nowhere until his legal issues are settled.  That's why the asking price hasn't come down.  Why lower the price when nobody is in a position to make an offer.

 

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Nope, he gave us 10 good games then went back to the same old Vick and even admitted once again that he didn't put the time in his playbook for Reid either. 

He turned into a good locker room guy as far as racial issues go and some of that stuff but, he was still a guy who just played back yard football on the field. 

I was fine with him off the field for reasons you stated and good people vouching for him.  He did some good things and had some highlights and memorable games but it just wasn't a long term answer and the coaching wasn't there for him with Chip, despite his system seemingly perfect for him.  Oh well.  Since McNabb we keep looking for the long term answer at QB and we're still looking.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, NOTW said:

and the coaching wasn't there for him with Chip, despite his system seemingly perfect for him.

Who would have thought ahead of time Foles was a better fit................

[eglz1]

8 hours ago, MF POON said:

I don't even want to entertain a Watson trade unless we know Hurts flat out stinks after a full season starting.

I'm not really a Hurts fan but I doubt very much he'll "flat out stink". I expect him to be somewhere in the middle 1/3 of the league. I'd love to underestimate him.

[brkmsn]

10 hours ago, MF POON said:

  This city once embraced a convicted "dog killer,"  I don't see why they couldn't embrace a guy who then would be wrongfully accused of SA.

Not everybody embraced him. There were plenty of Eagles fans that hated him forever. In his case, he served time, lost a ton of NFL salary and endorsement revenue and upon release began restitution and community service. He returned to the NFL a changed person, humble, and hard working. He did everything the Eagles, the NFL, the courts, and the animal activists asked of him as a person. 

In Watson's case, even if you throw all the SA accusations out, he was a disgruntled superstar that felt he should have say in personnel decisions and was already wanting "out." This is not a humble person. This is not a person willing to put a team first. He's a "me" guy that hasn't done anything to change that perception. We tried to make that work out once before when we "traded" for Owens. Everything was fine and dandy while we were winning, but as soon as that ended, all the things that he was that divided his previous team came to the forefront on this team. 

I'm all for giving a guy a second chance if he becomes a better person. I'm not for taking chances on players that think a change of scenery will make everything peachy. If you have problems everywhere you go, maybe ... it's you. 

[Mortimer]

I can't forgive Vick for what he did but he did seem to be genuinely trying to redeem himself.   Watson has an entitlement mentality and will never hack the criticism here.   Giving up draft capital for a guy with a history of bailing on his team will only encourage him to do it again.

[Guest]