Carson Wentz and the Colts pick - officially #16 (topic closed)

[QBhunter58]

5 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Yet people use raw stats, and "garbage time" numbers for Hurts to say why he should be benched. You can't have it both ways.  

To be fair, McNabb played with backup quality WR's for the majority of his career, and he took us to NFC championships. Wentz couldn't even win a single playoff game here, and he's still given the benefit of the doubt on his shortcomings. 

Listen, wentz was horrendous last year and he wanted out. But I have no doubt in my mind we would have won vs seattle if he didnt get hurt.

[QBhunter58]

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's a completely different argument.  And likely true.  When a relationship is broken as badly as it was here, that is often the case and the need for a fresh start is often the best remedy.  But, Howie continues to poison the future of this team...

Reid is another good example of this. It was time for him to leave and start fresh, best for both sides

[Iggles_Phan]

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Wentz also had plenty of issues - inability to read the defense, poor deep ball, tons of turnovers, etc. 

It's an organizational failure this year too. Have we not had injuries to our OL? have players not missed games due to covid?  2020 was bad, but Wentz also had issues which had nothing to do with the OL. 

 

The OL this year with Mailata having experience, Driscoll with experience and a higher pick in Dickerson is completely different from Matt Pryor, Matt Toth and Jamon Brown fixing his gloves in the middle of a play.   Night and day difference.  

Goedert missing a game when they still had Ertz was an organizational failure?  

I didn't say that Wentz was perfect, never even implied it.  But, he did not have a poor deep ball.  He had no deep threat WRs to throw the deep ball to.  This year, he's got the highest yards/attempt average in the NFL.  In 2017, he was throwing bombs away just fine.  Who did you want him to throw the deep ball to in 2020?  Greg Ward or Travis Fulgham? 

[MF POON]

9 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

Listen, wentz was horrendous last year and he wanted out. But I have no doubt in my mind we would have won vs seattle if he didnt get hurt.

I think we probably would've won too. But in saying that, we were a team that shouldn't have been in the playoffs. The division was awful that season, and we got in due to both Dallas and NY simply choking the division away.

[ManchesterEagle]

29 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

Only take issue with point number 1... Dak and Burrow are not fair comparisons. I see injury prone as multiple injuries/a reoccurring injury which spans several years and impacts multiple seasons. Wentz was injury prone, and Jimmy G is a nightmare

 

24 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

So a dude who missed 8 games in 6 years is more injury prone who missed 7 games in 10 games. Disagree ok. 

Again you are ignoring playoffs. How many seasons has Wentz finished in his NFL career? He had a serious injury in college in 2015.

After that:

2016 - finished season - no playoffs

2017 - missed 3 games regular season and entire Super Bowl run

2018 - missed 5 games regular season and 2 playoff games

2019 - got knocked out in the wild card game (cheap shot admittedly)

2020 - benched after 12 games.

Dak has missed 11 games - but they were one injury, one season. Apart from that he has played every game regular season and playoff.

[MF POON]

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The OL this year with Mailata having experience, Driscoll with experience and a higher pick in Dickerson is completely different from Matt Pryor, Matt Toth and Jamon Brown fixing his gloves in the middle of a play.   Night and day difference.  

Goedert missing a game when they still had Ertz was an organizational failure?  

I didn't say that Wentz was perfect, never even implied it.  But, he did not have a poor deep ball.  He had no deep threat WRs to throw the deep ball to.  This year, he's got the highest yards/attempt average in the NFL.  In 2017, he was throwing bombs away just fine.  Who did you want him to throw the deep ball to in 2020?  Greg Ward or Travis Fulgham? 

Lane has missed time and is now injured, plus Seumalo is on IR.  

His deep ball was bad here. He was always overthrowing receivers on deep passes, and when he was inaccurate he was always high with his passes.  Bringing up Fulgham is kind of odd, because last season he did actually play well, and was statistically one of the better WR's in the league during a short stint.  The fact that he couldn't cut it with the current coaching staff doesn't say much, as I don't think they know what the heck they're doing.

Ertz is a shell of his former self.

 

 

[Iggles_Phan]

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

Lane has missed time and is now injured, plus Seumalo is on IR.  

His deep ball was bad here. He was always overthrowing receivers on deep passes, and when he was inaccurate he was always high with his passes.  Bringing up Fulgham is kind of odd, because last season he did actually play well, and was statistically one of the better WR's in the league during a short stint.  The fact that he couldn't cut it with the current coaching staff doesn't say much, as I don't think they know what the heck they're doing.

Ertz is a shell of his former self.

There is so much here... 

Yes, Lane missed time, and they had to put in Dillard, who was actually playing the best of the OL out there during his stint.  Seumalo was replaced with a 2nd round pick that is supposed to be a stud once he learns the league.  

Deep ball was bad?  Nah, he overthrew the receivers because that's where you miss on a deep ball when you don't trust the WRs to make a play on the ball.  Fulgham was very good for 4 games, then completely disappeared.  The current coaching staff don't know what they are doing, or they can't find something that this QB can do consistently well, outside of garbage time?

 

As for Ertz... sure, he's lost a step, but he's still a top 10 TE in the league.   You are desperate.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

27 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

Listen, wentz was horrendous last year and he wanted out. But I have no doubt in my mind we would have won vs seattle if he didnt get hurt.

Absolute nonsense, Wentz played Seattle at the Linc earlier in 2019 and scored a classic garbage time TD with 20 seconds left to make it  17 - 9,  he was absolutely god awful, fumbling in field goal range after taking five and a half minutes off the clock on our first possession of the second half, throwing a pick early in the 4th quarter and fumbling the 2 point conversion when we scored the TD.

There was nothing in the second Seattle game to suggest he was going to be any better (he threw one three yard completion in 4 attempts before he went out) and McCown  was actually quite efficient until he did his hammy and we scored as many points as we did first game.

[ManchesterEagle]

33 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

So again.

Guy 2 missed more regular season games then guy 1. 

Dak would of missed the superbowl run too but he didnt lead his team to 11-2 record

It's funny how ya'll move the goal posts lol 

I said Wentz was injury prone.

Injury prone means "frequently injured or often sustaining injuries"

Wentz has been injured and not finished the season 3 of his first five years. He also had a serious wrist injury in his last college year. He sustained pre-season injuries and missed some of pre-season in 2016 and 2020.

Dak has had one serious injury but other than that has been healthy.

Therefore Wentz is more injury prone than Dak. That's a fact.

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said:

Let me ask this...

If you anonymously polled the 32 owners, 32 general managers and 32 head coaches, how many would pick Wentz, and How many would Pick Hurts 

If you anonymously polled 32 owners and GMs all of them would’ve taken one of the rookies coming out this year over Wentz so what’s your point? 31 owners/GMs had the opportunity to get Wentz last season and only one stepped up. It’s not cause of a lack of opportunities. 

[EazyEaglez]

10 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I said Wentz was injury prone.

Injury prone means "frequently injured or often sustaining injuries"

Wentz has been injured and not finished the season 3 of his first five years. He also had a serious wrist injury in his last college year. He sustained pre-season injuries and missed some of pre-season in 2016 and 2020.

Dak has had one serious injury but other than that has been healthy.

Therefore Wentz is more injury prone than Dak. That's a fact.

Semantics. The Wentz brigade pulls the same move about Watson. These guys missed overall more time due to the moment they got injured. Meanwhile Wentz has missed more games in multiple seasons. His injuries just occurred later. You know at points when the games really mattered and the team needed him the most. That’s why Dak and Watson have more playoff wins than Wentz. 

[EazyEaglez]

In retrospect I wish Wentz were still here. I wish he were here so I can read the beanbaggers blame everyone but him for his failures on the field. I wish he were here to hear all of them trash all of the Eagles talent that they suddenly think are all pro bowl players being held back by their quarterback. I wish he were here so I can witness the same people who basically called Pederson a buffoon who would be nothing without Wentz (despite winning 4 playoff games and a Super Bowl without him) trash this coach we have today who some are implying that he’s some kind of genius being help back by his quarterback. I wish he were here so we can see all of the people calling him elite would be begging them to run the ball effectively taking the ball out of the hands of this so called elite quarterback. I wish he were here so people can blame Sirianni for him throwing the ball into triple coverage. I wish he were here to turn these plays of Hurts running for his life into sack fumbles. I wish he were here to watch everyone claim his late game stats weren’t actually "padded stats” but the great one just trying to come back. Mostly I just wish he were he so the blame can go where it truly belongs even if those worshipping idiots will absolve their god from any of it. 

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, NYEagle said:

Don't absolve him but...when he had good coaches, healthy team, he was going to be the MVP and helped us get to the Super Bowl.  When he lost his coaches, and the team was a shell of itself, he regressed....gee....wonder why?

The only problem is 2016 and 2018. He had the so called great coaches (we are really talking about one guy here) in 2016 and he had an up and down season and the team went 7-9. Of course he was a rookie so we give him a pass right? Well 2018 he technically had better stats that 17, but the team didn’t really start winning until he was sat down. Now he’s a Colt and everyone is acting like these guys are undefeated with a losing record. It’s maddening to think. Meanwhile people aren’t giving Hurts the same benefit of doubt they gave Wentz in his rookie season when he had a so called "great coach” in Reich. Who is Jalen’s "great coach?” Inquiring minds want to know. 

[Perforator]

You have an unhealthy obsession with Carson

[Guest]

Just now, Perforator said:

You have an unhealthy obsession with Carson

Yes he does

[EazyEaglez]

12 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Yes he does

Actually I have an unhealthy obsession with trying to turn you dopes to the light. I have a compassion for you fools blinded by your god even if I know trying to help you all will be in vain. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

9 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Actually I have an unhealthy obsession with trying to turn you dopes to the light. I have a compassion for you fools blinded by your god even if I know trying to help you all will be in vain. 

I'd guess it fairly universal that no one wants your help.

[PoconoDon]

Happy or unhappy, it doesn't matter. The value of Carson Wentz to the Eagles is that if he stays healthy, the Eagles get an extra 1st round pick. That's it.

[MF POON]

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

 

As for Ertz... sure, he's lost a step, but he's still a top 10 TE in the league.   You are desperate.

Top 10??? LOL 

I think he'll definitely do better in AZ, but he's not top 10 anymore. 

[Iggles_Phan]

23 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Top 10??? LOL 

I think he'll definitely do better in AZ, but he's not top 10 anymore. 

ok

[It Hurts]

4 hours ago, MF POON said:

I think we probably would've won too. But in saying that, we were a team that shouldn't have been in the playoffs. The division was awful that season, and we got in due to both Dallas and NY simply choking the division away.

And they took advantage of that. Wasn’t it Seattle who won their division years ago at 7-9 and won their first round game. Get in and anything can happen. That’s why they play the game 

[It Hurts]

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I love how these Wentz worshippers somehow absolve him from the 4 win record the Eagles had last season. Yeah he has nothing to do with it. 🙄

It’s been said by us so called "worshippers” that he was bad that year. His head was messed up, his mechanics were terrible, and he was looking over his shoulder to see when Hurts would take over. All added up to a very bad year. He’s now out of that toxic environment and things are looking up for him 

[kentwo]

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The OL this year with Mailata having experience, Driscoll with experience and a higher pick in Dickerson is completely different from Matt Pryor, Matt Toth and Jamon Brown fixing his gloves in the middle of a play.   Night and day difference. 

Matt Pryor is actually playing pretty well this year with the Colts.

One of their pleasant surprises.

[Thing3]

I fail to see how Wentz remaining on this team changes things much at all. This team is far from a QB away from being good. We still need to get younger and shed cap as part of the rebuilding process. How exactly does keeping Wentz here met those needs? That's assuming he would even be willing to stay here when his contract was up. If he didn't want to stay here then we're right back where we're headed anyway.

[Iggles_Phan]

7 minutes ago, Thing3 said:

I fail to see how Wentz remaining on this team changes things much at all. This team is far from a QB away from being good. We still need to get younger and shed cap as part of the rebuilding process. How exactly does keeping Wentz here met those needs? That's assuming he would even be willing to stay here when his contract was up. If he didn't want to stay here then we're right back where we're headed anyway.