EMB Blog: 2022 Off-Season

[ManuManu]

 

[BigEFly]

5 minutes ago, greend said:

How about I'm mocking people that call it "film" like it's coaching "film", which it isn't. Didn't think I had to clarify that. My post was pretty straight forward. 

Well it had an "and” which suggested you also agree about boards.  I joined the Blog from an invitation from Scouts Notebook, Tommy’s draft area post.  Thing I liked about Tommy’s approach is he built a board based on what fit with the Eagles, not some arbitrary ranking system that some draft site offers.  That creates a different value.   Now, the Eagles have the manpower and resources to evaluate a player as to the team but also as to each individual team.  Some have eluded to Hurts being overvalued by the Eagles in the 2020 draft.  All it takes is one other team with a similar value to impact the decision to pull the trigger on a player they liked.  All those mock sites and lists are guesses.  I like boards.  

Now I bemoan the limitations of watching game film from TV broadcasts all the time. You really can’t see the full secondary. But you watch it like film.  Film when I was in high school was grainy 8mm black and white film from the press box area of the stadiums.  We actually went to video my junior year.  That unit took three people cart it around. We would run it, but we could move it back and forth.  To really study it.  You can do the same with TV broadcasts.  None of us are scouts but that is how amateur draft followers have been doing it since VCRs came out.  

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

14 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

C'mon man, enough with this nonsense. 

I mean mahomes is unproven, watson is not a good QB cause Davis mills played well for 6 games (really 2 out of 6 QBR) and burrow hasn’t shown anything yet so we should slow down on him. Oh and Justin herbert couldn’t get his team to playoffs so he gets demoted. 

[HazletonEagle]

28 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Hurts is not this awful QB some suggest:

 

 

yes he is.

If you wanted people to read your post maybe you should have put that statement at the end. 

[Iggles_Phan]

33 minutes ago, SB52 said:

You have to factor in Colangelo’s ineptitude, though. The Process has survived that jackhole setting two extremely high #1 picks on fire. Hinkie’s vision was perfect. Those put in charge to finalize the beginning stages couldn’t have done a worse job.

That was all part of the process, wasn't it?  

Should we also include Hinkie's decision to go with Jalil Okafor over Porzingus?  That was a waste of the #3 overall pick.  He wasn't an 'asset' that was acquired, he was a liability.   Whoops.   I guess Hinkie didn't really that great a job at asset acquisition either when it came down to actually adding talented players.

[HazletonEagle]

24 minutes ago, SB52 said:

We’re going to have to agree to disagree.

The Process is at the halfway mark and the Sixers have arguably the best player in the NBA.

the process is over. It didnt fail though. We didnt reach the end goal because it wasnt allowed to run to completion.

[LeanMeanGM]

Talk about a guy whose stock just crashed and burned 

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That was all part of the process, wasn't it?  

Should we also include Hinkie's decision to go with Jalil Okafor over Porzingus?  That was a waste of the #3 overall pick.  He wasn't an 'asset' that was acquired, he was a liability.   Whoops.   I guess Hinkie didn't really that great a job at asset acquisition either when it came down to actually adding talented players.

In fairness to hinkie, there were stories that the ownership didn’t want him to take porzingis cause they didn’t want a year of tanking wasted when he didn’t come over to play here as that’s what his agent said. I would’ve taken him anyway. Okafor was a player destined for the wrong era of basketball. The fultz pick is as bad if not worse due to capital they gave up to move up and the Celtics were always going to take Tatum. So you were likely going to get ball or fultz at 3. 

[TorontoEagle]

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Talk about a guy whose stock just crashed and burned 

Cowboys will be strange this year. It seems like everything is setup for Payton to take over in 2023. 

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

Cowboys will be strange this year. It seems like everything is setup for Payton to take over in 2023. 

i feel like Payton to Dallas is happening when Dallas implodes next year with mccarthy. It’s inevitable. At least dallas is gonna have to give up compensation for him. 

[Alphagrand]

7 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Talk about a guy whose stock just crashed and burned 

Pretty bastardly thing to say when Moore has interviewed with MIN, HOU, and MIA and those jobs are still not filled.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

i feel like Payton to Dallas is happening when Dallas implodes next year with mccarthy. It’s inevitable. At least dallas is gonna have to give up compensation for him. 

Why do they have to give up compensation 

[Iggles_Phan]

30 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Hurts is not this awful QB some suggest:

QBR 19th, NY/A 13th, DVOA 17th, PFF 10th overall, 16th passing - pretty similar to Wentz for a lot less money and a lot fewer headaches.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-quarterback-rankings

Not bad for his first season as a starting QB.

Now how much can he improve?  That's the $64K question.

But we're rebuilding, unless you live in fantasy land where this team pulls off another 2017, no harm finding out while you build the rest of the roster.

PFF take on SMith, ranked 23rd among WRs:

The Eagles utilized Smith as a downfield threat, as he generated the sixth-highest average depth of target in the NFL (15.2 yards). He held up his end of the bargain with the fifth-most deep receptions (12) of over 20 yards downfield. Interestingly, the 2020 Heisman winner dominated on hitch routes this year. His receiving grade and 298 yards on hitch routes both ranked in the top three among wide receivers.

But, but his QB can't throw deep.

1 - QBR includes rushing stats.  Throw it out as a measurement tool of Hurts.
2 - Comparing him to Wentz is not a benefit here.  Wentz has proven to not be good enough... neither is Hurts.   Moving on.   Being cheaper isn't actually this great asset... it is only an asset for a limited time and if the biggest pro is: "he's on a rookie deal"... then you don't really have an asset. 

3 - PFF... worthless ranking, but thanks for including it. 

 

20 yards downfield isn't what we are talking about when we discuss his arm strength.  Anyone off the street with half decent athleticism can throw a football 20 yards downfield.   The question is the trajectory and the accuracy.  Hurts rainbows deep balls.  They are out of his hand deep (poor anticipation) and are thrown at a bad trajectory (offering a CB to recover, or a Safety to get over).  Did you notice how many of his deep balls were under throws? And how he has to get his whole body into the throw if it's deeper than about 15 yards?  

Hurts has extremely limited pocket presence, limited ability to find his reads on time, and rarely if ever throws a ball with anticipation.  There aren't a lot of pin point passes where he throws the ball before the receiver has made a cut.  He has to see the receiver open to throw it... he can't 'throw them open', and often times, when he waits until they are 'open' to throw, the DBs can close the gap and so he holds the ball longer and then runs instead.

 

The long and short of it is, he's a liability to the offense more than an asset.  The offense has to be tailored to his unique skill set, focusing primarily on his running, because of his inability to run the offense that the coaches seemed to want to run.   On the flip side, a QB that allows the offensive play caller to OPEN UP the playbook due to his unique skill set is what the team should always be looking for, until they find one.   Will Hurts start for this team in 2022?   Probably, but likely the same way he got the job this past year... by default, not by design.  And if its by design... 

 

It's a failure to understand how the NFL actually works.   Being a power running team is great... if you have a QB that can pressure the safeties deep (and I mean deeper than 20 yards) down the field.  That can make a DC pay when he crowds the LOS with 9 or sometimes 10 players.  Hurts has proven time and again, that the formula to beat him is simple... don't let him run and take away the short stuff.  Of course, when he plays the weak sisters of the poor in the NFL, he can get by with his limited skills.  But, when put against the top half of the league, he's got virtually no chance.  He's not good enough.  So, they need to seek an upgrade, until they find one.

[Iggles_Phan]

36 minutes ago, SB52 said:

We’re going to have to agree to disagree.

The Process is at the halfway mark and the Sixers have arguably the best player in the NBA.

It's been EIGHT years!  This is the halfway mark?   🤦‍♂️

[LeanMeanGM]

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Why do they have to give up compensation 

Saints hold his rights through 2024

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Why do they have to give up compensation 

Saints hold his rights through 2024. I’m guessing it’s not something unbearable but at least it’s something. 

[LeanMeanGM]

Duce Staley named Lions Head Coach..

 

 

 

 

at the Senior Bowl

[HazletonEagle]

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It's been EIGHT years!  This is the halfway mark?   🤦‍♂️

Its not been 8 years. The process was ended with the hiring of Colangelo. It never was allowed to be followed to completion. We dont know if the process would have failed or not. I think it was likely going to give us a better team than what we have today.

[TorontoEagle]

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

1 - QBR includes rushing stats.  Throw it out as a measurement tool of Hurts.
2 - Comparing him to Wentz is not a benefit here.  Wentz has proven to not be good enough... neither is Hurts.   Moving on.   Being cheaper isn't actually this great asset... it is only an asset for a limited time and if the biggest pro is: "he's on a rookie deal"... then you don't really have an asset. 

3 - PFF... worthless ranking, but thanks for including it. 

 

20 yards downfield isn't what we are talking about when we discuss his arm strength.  Anyone off the street with half decent athleticism can throw a football 20 yards downfield.   The question is the trajectory and the accuracy.  Hurts rainbows deep balls.  They are out of his hand deep (poor anticipation) and are thrown at a bad trajectory (offering a CB to recover, or a Safety to get over).  Did you notice how many of his deep balls were under throws? And how he has to get his whole body into the throw if it's deeper than about 15 yards?  

Hurts has extremely limited pocket presence, limited ability to find his reads on time, and rarely if ever throws a ball with anticipation.  There aren't a lot of pin point passes where he throws the ball before the receiver has made a cut.  He has to see the receiver open to throw it... he can't 'throw them open', and often times, when he waits until they are 'open' to throw, the DBs can close the gap and so he holds the ball longer and then runs instead.

 

The long and short of it is, he's a liability to the offense more than an asset.  The offense has to be tailored to his unique skill set, focusing primarily on his running, because of his inability to run the offense that the coaches seemed to want to run.   On the flip side, a QB that allows the offensive play caller to OPEN UP the playbook due to his unique skill set is what the team should always be looking for, until they find one.   Will Hurts start for this team in 2022?   Probably, but likely the same way he got the job this past year... by default, not by design.  And if its by design... 

 

It's a failure to understand how the NFL actually works.   Being a power running team is great... if you have a QB that can pressure the safeties deep (and I mean deeper than 20 yards) down the field.  That can make a DC pay when he crowds the LOS with 9 or sometimes 10 players.  Hurts has proven time and again, that the formula to beat him is simple... don't let him run and take away the short stuff.  Of course, when he plays the weak sisters of the poor in the NFL, he can get by with his limited skills.  But, when put against the top half of the league, he's got virtually no chance.  He's not good enough.  So, they need to seek an upgrade, until they find one.

Nevermind deep balls even, Hurts couldn't/wouldn't complete intermediate throws. Look at Bowles strategy against him...load up to the offensive right side, dare him to throw left or over the middle....and he just....couldn't do it....when you can only throw around the LOS and to the right side, you can't be a consistent starting QB. 

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

40 minutes ago, SB52 said:

We’re going to have to agree to disagree.

The Process is at the halfway mark and the Sixers have arguably the best player in the NBA.

We really should be thanking our lucky stars we got embiid. Cause if he didn’t have the injury during the draft process we’d likely have Wiggins. Wiggins is good now cause of good organization with good coaching. Imagine if he was the best player we had come from that whole process. 

[HazletonEagle]

What do you guys think DK gets on a contract extension. Elite contracts are probably going to be over 20M a year average. But, does he get that?

Im just thinking if you can get him with a year left on his rookie deal at just over 1M dollars, thats a big time aquisition at incredible cost that allows you to add more talent with that ~30 million we have. Its like getting a pro bowl level WR and hardly even dipping in to our pool of cap space yet. 

Of course, you need to worry about the extension though...

As a 1 trick pony with concerns about his neck can he be retained for like 15avg? Or is he going to continue pushing the max higher for WRs?

[Iggles_Phan]

26 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Oh, cool, PFF. We're also the 8th best team in the NFL in PFF's eyes. Sure looked like it 2 weeks ago.

Check my math... wouldn't the 8 best teams in the NFL likely be playing in the Conference Semi-finals?  Or at least, put up a good fight against one of the teams that they had to play in order to get there?   

 

I'd put this team somewhere around #16 or so.  If not for their tiebreaker over the Saints, the Eagles would be drafting in the #16 spot, instead of the Colts, based on SOS.  And the Eagles would hold the #15, #16, and #17 picks.  As it is... they get the #19 pick, which makes them a top 12 team... but only due to tiebreakers and conference alignments.  They are not better than the Colts, the Chargers or the Saints (with any QB other than Trevor Siemian), and probably not better than Miami either.  I'd put Baltimore over them, when they are healthier, they are better than the Eagles, and I'd be hard pressed to show that the Eagles are actually better than the Vikings or Browns either.  Those teams actually got some quality wins.  The Eagles got 0.

[Iggles_Phan]

19 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

the process is over. It didnt fail though. We didnt reach the end goal because it wasnt allowed to run to completion.

It failed because they could have stuck with the 'traditional' route and ended up where this team is right now.

[Iggles_Phan]

15 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

In fairness to hinkie, there were stories that the ownership didn’t want him to take porzingis cause they didn’t want a year of tanking wasted when he didn’t come over to play here as that’s what his agent said. I would’ve taken him anyway. Okafor was a player destined for the wrong era of basketball. The fultz pick is as bad if not worse due to capital they gave up to move up and the Celtics were always going to take Tatum. So you were likely going to get ball or fultz at 3. 

But had no problem with wasting 2 years of tanking as Saric stayed overseas?  

[Iggles_Phan]

7 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Its not been 8 years. The process was ended with the hiring of Colangelo. It never was allowed to be followed to completion. We dont know if the process would have failed or not. I think it was likely going to give us a better team than what we have today.

He said it's at the halfway point, which means it hasn't ended.   But, it started 8 years ago.   

 

I don't want to hear about the failure to be allowed to be completed as an excuse.    If I start to build a house, and decide halfway to just stop the construction, that's not a successful build... its a failure.