1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Yea, I get all that. It's the fire Sirianni hire Mannion stuff that just seems crazy. I kinda of understood it when it came to Kellen Moore because he was an experienced play caller and was on the cusp of getting a HC job. The talk about Mannion just seems crazy. You would have to hope he's not only a good OC, but he's also a good HC. We've seen a few good OC's who are garbage coaches.

I think people continue to be concerned that if a new OC improves the offense they'll get hired by another team. Steichen and Moore left. If someone hires Mannion as HC and the Eagles replace him with Grizzard that may be fine. I've seen maybe 2 people on here suggest firing Siri and keeping Mannion and that was a hypothetical/emotional response after the season. Earlier, I said WIP might talk about that to drum up drama, not as a serious idea.

Given Mannion's limited coaching experience, even if he does well this year it would make more sense to be an OC here for at least two seasons and not leave right away.

3 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I wouldn't use total. I think it doesn't show the whole picture

It's actual production from the QB position on the field and that must be accounted for. That is an archaic viewpoint, in the modern NFL where QBs are much more mobile. Also, how many sacks has Hurts saved the line? I'm sure that's a nice number and probably hard to quantify. You saw what happened when McKee came in against the rush. Not too good.

1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

He's paid like an elite QB and not only hasn't he played elite

We've got to stop this idea about his contract. He's the 12th highest paid QB contract average per year. Lamar, Purdy, Lawrence, Love, and Dak all making more than him and they've done nothing. QB contracts are always ridiculous, they keep giving Cousins and Daniel Jones money.

Also, after Mahomes, which QB in the NFL right now is "elite?" Elite should be reserved for THE top QBs, like maybe top 3. QB play is not what it was 15 years ago, 10 years ago.

6 hours ago, MR-CYN said:

Is this where the whole gang gets together and all starts finger snapping? Gay.

Only time I recall a whole gang getting together and snapping fingers was in Westside Story. Or maybe the scene where Holly Golightly takes Paul to a reading. While the writer of the latter was gay, nothing gay about Audrey Hepburn or Natalie Wood. Haven’t seen the finger snapping post the Beat generation.

6 hours ago, NCiggles said:

Wouldn't he face a NFL suspension before he could be eligible to play? What Vick did was awful but there's a cultural context to it that made it more understandable. Vick was also believably remorseful. I think Ruggs's crime was worse and I am not sure how remorseful he is.

Stallworth lost a season but his jail term wasn’t close to Ruggs. Hard to say. I think Roger has to walk a fine line when a player has served their debt to society. My reaction to youthful speeding and DUI is probably colored by but for the grace, that would be me decades ago. Unfortunately, I dealt with the results of drunk driving in my profession and for the most part the intoxicant was remorseful, more stupid mistake than intent. (Then there were the multiple offenders, that saw themselves as victims).

25 minutes ago, NOTW said:

We've got to stop this idea about his contract. He's the 12th highest paid QB contract average per year. Lamar, Purdy, Lawrence, Love, and Dak all making more than him and they've done nothing. QB contracts are always ridiculous, they keep giving Cousins and Daniel Jones money.

Also, after Mahomes, which QB in the NFL right now is "elite?" Elite should be reserved for THE top QBs, like maybe top 3. QB play is not what it was 15 years ago, 10 years ago.

We don't. When he got his contract he was the highest paid player in the NFL at the time of signing. Teams don't make players the highest paid player in the NFL if they don't think they are worth it. He has not lived up to his contract. When they gave him the contract they paid him like one of the best players in the NFL. He didn't play like it. Where it ranks now doesn't really matter, as all NFL players drop down the list of highest paid after a couple years, that's inflation. When we evaluate whether or not a player has lived up to his contract, the only logical way to do it is to evaluate if a player has lived up to the contract they received when it was given. He has not played like a top QB, so he hasn't.

And guess what in two years without a new contract, Josh Allen will fall to like the 9th highest paid QB too. Happens to everyone. Happened to Mahomes before his new deal.

6 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

We don't. When he got his contract he was the highest paid player in the NFL at the time of signing. Teams don't make players the highest paid player in the NFL if they don't think they are worth it. He has not lived up to his contract. When they gave him the contract they paid him like one of the best players in the NFL. He didn't play like it. Where it ranks now doesn't really matter, as all NFL players drop down the list of highest paid after a couple years, that's inflation. When we evaluate whether or not a player has lived up to his contract, the only logical way to do it is to evaluate if a player has lived up to the contract they received when it was given. He has not played like a top QB, so he hasn't.

And guess what in two years without a new contract, Josh Allen will fall to like the 9th highest paid QB too. Happens to everyone. Happened to Mahomes before his new deal.

I think given the state of NFL QBs, he's won games, made playoffs every year, 2 SB appearances and a win. A lot of teams would love to have that.

Just now, NOTW said:

I think given the state of NFL QBs, he's won games, made playoffs every year, 2 SB appearances and a win. A lot of teams would love to have that.

I consider that a team accomplishment. He was part of great teams. He played well in some playoff games and two SBs. And btw I even declared it two SB wins(see my sig). But I think in 2022 he was great. In 2024 he was solid on one of the most talented teams constructed in modern NFL history if we're being real. Just a loaded roster by Howie. And I don't think it's a coincidence since some of that talent has gotten plucked away since or injured(OL) the team really fell off. Where as if you had a QB like Allen or Stafford or pick your elite QB... I think even with the deficiencies that QB would've been able to keep the offense performing at a high level. I think Hurts is a QB who can succeed with great talent around him, although not perform at an elite level. When the talent around him isn't as hot I think his shortcomings are magnified.

The argument about diminishing a QB succeeding with great talent is effing stupid. Every good QB has to have good talent and a supporting cast. Mahomes is 70% of the QB he was when he had Tyreek and Kelce in his prime. Check the stats. Do you remember Mahomes and how he looked in 2 different Superbowls with bad tackles on the offensive line? Looked like a rookie running for his life in both blowout losses vs. Bucs and Eagles. Insanity!!

28 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I consider that a team accomplishment. He was part of great teams. He played well in some playoff games and two SBs. And btw I even declared it two SB wins(see my sig). But I think in 2022 he was great. In 2024 he was solid on one of the most talented teams constructed in modern NFL history if we're being real. Just a loaded roster by Howie. And I don't think it's a coincidence since some of that talent has gotten plucked away since or injured(OL) the team really fell off. Where as if you had a QB like Allen or Stafford or pick your elite QB... I think even with the deficiencies that QB would've been able to keep the offense performing at a high level. I think Hurts is a QB who can succeed with great talent around him, although not perform at an elite level. When the talent around him isn't as hot I think his shortcomings are magnified.

Wins and SB wins are used with regard to an individual player differently depending on bias:

If you like the QB and he's good then people cite W-L record, number of wins, championships.

If you don't like the QB, wins are only team stats.

The 2024 Superbowl performance by Hurts may be even better in hindsight. Barkley was almost a nonfactor compared to regular season Barkley. We had a solid AJ Brown. Wouldn't say he was the circa 2022-23 version. 2 offensive linemen, in Jurgens and Dickerson that were severely hampered. Yes, Hurts more than pulled his weight in this one against a Top 4 Championship defense and certainly deserves every bit of the accolades of why they won.

We can make the superbowl with Hurts on our roster. Most teams can’t say that about their QB.

Nothing else matters.

22 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Wins and SB wins are used with regard to an individual player differently depending on bias:

If you like the QB and he's good then people cite W-L record, number of wins, championships.

If you don't like the QB, wins are only team stats.

I never use rings to judge players in any sport, I think it's stupid.

2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I never use rings to judge players in any sport, I think it's stupid.

Ok.

Ruggs was denied parole and wont be eligible again until August 2027

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nfl/article/ex-raiders-wideout-henry-ruggs-iii-denied-parole-nearly-5-years-after-car-crash-that-killed-woman-and-dog-195024914.html

This is liking taking candy from a baby 🤣 but I will bite anyway.

Any great athlete in team sports will have the final laugh once they put a ring on their finger. Personal stats are for losers. And nerds. They can be manipulated and empty. Ultimately, if your team won it all you can piss on everyone. No one will care about your stats when you lose. Look at Embiid. He would die for a championship to complete his legacy. It's all about winning. Its the only thing that matters and why you play the game. And how the great ones are judged. It's not putting up gaudy stats, but losing.

2 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Stallworth lost a season but his jail term wasn’t close to Ruggs. Hard to say. I think Roger has to walk a fine line when a player has served their debt to society. My reaction to youthful speeding and DUI is probably colored by but for the grace, that would be me decades ago. Unfortunately, I dealt with the results of drunk driving in my profession and for the most part the intoxicant was remorseful, more stupid mistake than intent. (Then there were the multiple offenders, that saw themselves as victims).

Stallworth also went against his lawyers advice and took a deal. He probably could have gotten out of it if he wanted.

My calendar must be wrong because it’s Festivus in the Blog today

1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

Where it ranks now doesn't really matter,

Of course it matters. If you were trying to claim Player X is (not was) an elite player, would you use stats that showed he was the top player for one season 3 years ago or would you use more recent stats to make your argument? It's a rhetorical question, by the way, I know you wouldn't be able to give an honest without twisting yourself into knots.

1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

But I think in 2022 he was great.

Funny how you use the word was here but not when referring to him as being paid as an "elite QB." Suddenly where he ranks now only matters for his performance but not pay.

2 hours ago, jojodancer said:

It's actual production from the QB position on the field and that must be accounted for. That is an archaic viewpoint, in the modern NFL where QBs are much more mobile. Also, how many sacks has Hurts saved the line? I'm sure that's a nice number and probably hard to quantify. You saw what happened when McKee came in against the rush. Not too good.

You're misunderstanding me. Go back and re-read my posts. I never said they shouldn't be